3 years have passed, not much have changed

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:37 pm

Considering C2 isn't native, it's doing so very well.
But if you have already earned enough money, you can always buy a native engine or use Unity 3D or 2D for free.

Btw. C2 has changed a lot! You just didn't feel it but we do.
Last edited by chadorireborn on Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Things you can create is only limited by your imagination. If you don't have the skills then use your motivation as a natural force to exceed all expectations. Chadori RebornXD
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Post » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:03 pm

I think a lot has changed in 3 years but C2 still relies too much on third-party projects to get anything done.

You want to release your game on iOS/Android? Then you'll rely on Intel XDK, Cocoon or other tools.

You want to release your game on Windows/OSX/Linux? Then you'll rely on NW.js.

C2 works well with HTML5 of course, but that's just until you need to add a website's API to your game to try and make some money.

In my opinion Scirra is really missing out by not having separate paid exporters for these, like GameMaker and Fusion 2.5 do. Still I've heard that most problems with C2 currently are due to it being made in a old version of VisualStudio and that's why they're focused on C3, so that's pretty important to get done before anything else.
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Post » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:54 am

@PixelPower
thanks it is a very well made tutorial, certainly inspiring, but where does it stop? My game, other than being pretty bad, is also pretty simple, if I need to optimise a game of the caliber of Pigs in the Oven there is something wrong with the tech itself, simple as that.

@Ashley
nothing has changed in the performance department on mobile, C2 has made amazing progress. Performance has improved, but we are still far away from anything comparable to native, and this is the sad truth. While on desktop with NW performance is great, on mobile we are still not up to standard and that is certainly not Scirra's fault.
Regarding point 2/4 it all boils down to a non-optimal workflow, it simply not feasible for a professional tool to have to rely on filing bugs on the forum for something which is that simple and it's supposed to work, as you said, this is not your fault, cordova moves fast and there is a lot of unmantained and low quality plugins.
I feel that Scirra should take over the development of some of cordova plugins directly related to C2 core functionalities, that and forcing a known stable version of cordova. I am sure that most of the issues I am facing are due to xdk using something not entirely compatible with C2, and that is fine, what is not fine is that we are left in the dark about what exactly is compatible with C2.

I feel like there is a big push on your part to make newbie friendly deployment of apps on android and ios, with phonegap build and intel xdk, but when such products produce all kind of errors, there is clearly something wrong, something that might turn to be off-putting for inexperienced users. I understand why you removed Ejecta exporters, but the thing is that with Ejecta you know where you stand, plenty of release notes, plugins are all directly mantained and peer reviewed by a close community, you kinda know where you stand, same with something like ionic, ionic itself sorts out cordova and plugins versions, so you might not have bleeding edge functionalities, but you do have stability and that is ultimately what I am looking for in a professional tool.

For what concerns audio, on ios is a know issue that you need an initial touch to start audio, as outlined by you in a comment, on ios audio is definitely not low latency as it depends on the webview, it would be much better to interface with something like this: https://github.com/floatinghotpot/cordo ... ativeaudio . I will be more than happy to provide you with the full capx of Pigs in the Oven it's around 30mb if you are ok with that I will send you a pm with the dropbox link, I will include a list of all the issues that I've been facing with intel xdk.

You know how much I've cared for C2 and I will be the first one to buy C3, this is why I keep fighting for it.
It's such a shame because it's an inch to being a production ready game engine, but it misses the mark in some key areas, to the point of becoming a very good prototyping tool to then be ported elsewhere.
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Post » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:27 am

0plus1 wrote:nothing has changed in the performance department on mobile,

I've written a number of blog posts, with objective measurements, that show it has. I don't think the fact one game that potentially has a performance issue outweighs all of that?

I feel that Scirra should take over the development of some of cordova plugins directly related to C2 core functionalities

I agree. Hopefully we will start this soon.

I feel like there is a big push on your part to make newbie friendly deployment of apps on android and ios, with phonegap build and intel xdk, but when such products produce all kind of errors, there is clearly something wrong, something that might turn to be off-putting for inexperienced users.

I don't think anyone properly appreciates how many people are successfully publishing Cordova/desktop games with Construct 2. If everything works fine, there's not much reason to post to the forum. If things don't work, people tend to come and post on the forum. I think this creates a distorted perception that these tools are not working at all. For the most part, I think they are working fine. That's not to say nobody has issues with them, there are bugs and issues like with any technology, but I think it's blown out of proportion.

on ios is a know issue that you need an initial touch to start audio, as outlined by you in a comment

Yes, that's true, it's a restriction Apple enforce. It only needs one touch though then all audio will play back fine.

on ios audio is definitely not low latency as it depends on the webview

As far as I am aware, sample-accurate playback works on iOS, in both webviews - they both support Web Audio.

it would be much better to interface with something like this: https://github.com/floatinghotpot/cordo ... ativeaudio

I am baffled as to what to do when on one side, we are criticised for relying too much on third-party code, then on the other side, people are suggesting to solve problems by relying even more on third-party code. And that project appears to be relatively unmaintained (last changed 7 months ago) and has open bugs like sound doesn't play on iOS 10...

I will be more than happy to provide you with the full capx of Pigs in the Oven it's around 30mb if you are ok with that I will send you a pm with the dropbox link, I will include a list of all the issues that I've been facing with intel xdk.

Sure, please send it over, I want to take a look and see what is going on. I have PMs disabled on the forum, please email me at [email protected].
Scirra Founder
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Post » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:17 pm

0plus1 wrote:@PixelPower
thanks it is a very well made tutorial, certainly inspiring, but where does it stop? My game, other than being pretty bad, is also pretty simple, if I need to optimise a game of the caliber of Pigs in the Oven there is something wrong with the tech itself, simple as that.


In my experience, you always need to optimize, especially true for mobiles.

There's no way around it, not until there's enough brute force in devices to overcome inefficient coding.

And yes, C2's event system is very much coding. How you do it has a massive affect on the final performance.
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Post » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:38 pm

No disrespect, but I actually completely disagree with the title of this topic.

I used to do a lot of work in Flash, and about 2-3 years ago when Flash started going down hill, I started looking for another engine to use.

I tried everything from Construct 2, Corona, Stencyl, MonkeyX, Multimedia Fusion 2.5. Panda Engine, Phaser and MANY others.

I wanted to be best equipped to make a decision on which engine I would choose to work with in the future.

When I first used Construct 2 (2-3 years ago), I wasn't blown away by the performance and was comparing HTML5 to Flash. I was also using C2 wrong in many ways.

Recently I've come back to it and I genuinely believe that it's one of (if not the best) engine money can buy. I found so many useful improvements, not just performance, but small things like being able to drag scenes around and so on.

C2 is the most updated / bug free software I've ever used. I can get my 'flash style' games running in a browser on an iPhone 5s at 60fps. The creators of C2 also frequently communicate and reply to questions on the forum.

Every single other engine I've used had issues. Ranging from graphical flaws, to unsupported features to game breaking bugs and so on. If you only look at the 'other engines' forums, you will see a whole bunch of people complaining about all sorts of stuff.

The exponential improvements in mobile devices are so fast now, that I personally don't believe it has a point thinking about going native, (if you're making 2d games). Native engines have problem too and plenty of them.

I've recently noticed a more and more C2 games on the app store front page (I've even made a C2 folder on my phone - just to keep track of them).

I honestly think that give it a couple of years and the whole native vs html5 dilemma will be redundant.

I don't think anyone properly appreciates how many people are successfully publishing Cordova/desktop games with Construct 2. If everything works fine, there's not much reason to post to the forum. If things don't work, people tend to come and post on the forum. I think this creates a distorted perception that these tools are not working at all. For the most part, I think they are working fine. That's not to say nobody has issues with them, there are bugs and issues like with any technology, but I think it's blown out of proportion.


@Ashley - I completely agree and that's why I think it would be awesome to showcase as much of this stuff as possible, that way existing and potential customers would see what's possible :)
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Post » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:53 am

I think the most of the performance issues could be solved by offering us methods to load/unload assets & layouts at will and not just automatically by the engine itself.
In my opinion C2's current "dictatorship" with next to no control about the things mentioned above is a big mistake and I really hope, no I count on C3 to finally bring the right changes to this part of the engine.

Personally this is a key selling point for me and I honestly wouldn't consider purchasing C3, if it doesn't deliver any improvements for this.
Just as a side note, I think that C2 is currently the only game engine on the market that doesn't offer features like this.
(Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this.)



Ninjadoodle wrote:I honestly think that give it a couple of years and the whole native vs html5 dilemma will be redundant.

Good luck with the competitors that will offer Native and HTML5 export with a visual editor.
Trust me, HTML5's performance won't be the only thing redundant then (of course this is a reference about Flash). :roll:
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Post » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:19 am

Good luck with the competitors that will offer Native and HTML5 export with a visual editor.


@TheRealDannyyy - I respect your opinion, but from my experience this is not as lucrative as it sounds. I've tried multiple visual editors that offer HTML5 and Native (eg Stencyl, MMF2.5, Godot etc.) and I find that none of them do everything well. They try to foucs on covering everything (jack of all trades) and evrything ends up slightly broken + it never gets fixed, because the resources aren't there for the maintenance.

In these "jack of all trades engines" , there are usually very big problems with performance (HTML5), scaling bugs and I could go on.

Construct 2 does HTML5 very well - to the point that I can be confident offering licences to sponsors, as I know my game won't break - and if by any chance it does, I know that the Scirra team is on top of it and any critical bugs will be fixed soon.

The other issue is that I'm yet to find an engine in which you can put a game together as quick as you can in C2 - this alone makes C2 trump anything out there.

In my search for a replacement too for Flash, I stumbled upon engines like "Spark", which is about a year overdue for its beta release - which leads me to believe, that even once it's out, the updates will be few and far between. Quite frankly I would be surprised if anything came out, that would flawlessly export to all platforms without any issues. I don't believe, that these companies have the resources to maintain their engines from that many angles (sufficiently).

C2 is a quality product which I feel confident using, my latest game runs smoothly on an iPhone 5s which is already generations behind.

I personally fully support Scirra in sticking to their guns (HTML5), focusing on whats important, and do it well (like they have been doing).

PS. People also forget that HTML5 is a market of it's own and can be monetized just like the app store.
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Post » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:27 am

@Ashley

I've written a number of blog posts, with objective measurements, that show it has. I don't think the fact one game that potentially has a performance issue outweighs all of that?


Ok, let me rephrase my statement then. Performance has improved, but it still not good enough. Just take a look at the web development ecosystem as a whole, React has ReactJS, Nativescript is gaining enormous traction, and even something like ionic relies very heavily on hooks to native components, even vue.js, a newcomer has already 2 option for native compiling.
To me this suggest that HTML5 failed to deliver, and devs are not willing to put up with long dev cycles focused on optimising a lackluster technology.

I am baffled as to what to do when on one side, we are criticised for relying too much on third-party code, then on the other side, people are suggesting to solve problems by relying even more on third-party code


Not really, as I suggested Scirra becoming the one maintaining it. Audio on iOS is clearly problematic, to me having the user touch the screen before sounds can start is unacceptable. Considering there are issues on that department why not use native when possible?

I don't think anyone properly appreciates how many people are successfully publishing Cordova/desktop games with Construct 2. If everything works fine, there's not much reason to post to the forum. If things don't work, people tend to come and post on the forum. I think this creates a distorted perception that these tools are not working at all. For the most part, I think they are working fine. That's not to say nobody has issues with them, there are bugs and issues like with any technology, but I think it's blown out of proportion.


Agreed, that can be said from everything, from cars to food. It's always the one complaining that flood the forums.
If nobody points out where there are issues we would never move forward. Unity, UE4, Game Maker and all the other framework are full of people complaining and sometimes good things comes out of it.

@Silverforce
In my experience, you always need to optimize, especially true for mobiles.
There's no way around it, not until there's enough brute force in devices to overcome inefficient coding.
And yes, C2's event system is very much coding. How you do it has a massive affect on the final performance.


Fair enough, but honestly what tools do we have in C2? It's a blackbox for most part and debugging/optimising can become a very hard task on mobile. There is no memory management as @TheRealDannyyy pointed out, and for the most part optimisation is all trial and error which, couple with the hard deployment pipeline (again on mobile, desktop is heaps better) that I outlined in my previous comments becomes a timesink which is unjustifiable, at least for me.

@Ninjadoodle
No disrespect, but I actually completely disagree with the title of this topic.


None taken mate

I honestly think that give it a couple of years and the whole native vs html5 dilemma will be redundant.

We have been hearing this for the past 5 years, still waiting. The way the market is moving it's pretty clear that the future are js to native compilers.

I do agree with you, C2 is bar none the best HTML5 game engine on the market. When you stray from desktop (NW or websites) and you start going into mobile, a whole lot of issues start to surface and that is where other tools do the job better.
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Post » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:45 am

Ok I'am really curious as to what your game has that it is running slow. How many sprites onscreen? Do you put code into groups and turn them off when you don't need them?
I do want to help so instead of focusing on C2 , lets focus on your game. I have a game called blast AD whih has 25+ enemies onscreen not counting gunshots and other special effects.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... t.ad&hl=en

Does your game have more moving sprites? Are you using the pin behavior in your game? Are you using other 3rd party plugins ? I have helped people before and I'am sure we can get to the bottom of this.
Check out my awesome Android Game releases https://play.google.com/store/apps/deve ... ames&hl=en
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