A few serious problems that could use your votes/support!

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sun May 03, 2015 7:24 pm

Everyone would have switched to Unity or GMS if it were that easy. Thing is...how many of us can create games of the same calibur using them? If you don't know C# or JS then it will be years before you can even begin making decent games in Unity. Even then I find the workflow to be completely bonkers in comparison. Seriously - go check out how to create and animate a simple sprite-based game character. As for GM...it's an incredibly buggy and obtuse piece of software if you ask me. I am truly baffled by how popular it is.

Frankly I (and a large portion of the community it seems) would be happy with a single native windows desktop exporter, and have no problem waiting for other native exporters down the road. This whole multi-platform craze is ridiculous and every engine out there is focusing far too much on it instead of features to make better games. HTML5 will likely never reach its full potential on consoles and mobiles anyway so forget about it already. Ya tried it, it didn't work, move on.

Ahem..anyway..starred.
Last edited by Tokinsom on Sun May 03, 2015 8:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post » Sun May 03, 2015 7:36 pm

Tokinsom wrote:As for GM...it's just an incredibly buggy and obtuse piece of software if you ask me........Frankly I (and a large portion of the community it seems) would be happy with a single native windows desktop exporter, and have no problem waiting for other native exporters down the road. This whole multi-platform craze is ridiculous....


Spot on....

I am continually balancing any advantages of moving to another software. If I do it will be to something better than GMS! Unity or, perhaps, UE4 - but I will be acknowledging such a move would be stepping back 2 years in ability before I might become vaguely competent. So, considering a 2 year time frame, I'm just balancing what I think will be the best use of that time. I could be wrong, but thus far my time is being gambled with c2...


:D
I only occasionally visit - I'm learning C# for Unity, but c2 is still a respectable game engine imo....
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Post » Sun May 03, 2015 8:15 pm

@Nesteris well since I am only ever targetting browsers, it is not as easy as switching to another html5 engine (which will obviously have the same issues with browsers), for non browser games however, I agree C2 should not be used, it is not worth the wait and it seems wrapper just share the bad side of both browsers and native.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Sun May 03, 2015 9:14 pm

@Aphrodite
I agree, when it comes to pure HTML5, as in putting the games on a browser, C2 is King, Queen and the rest of the royal family. But for everything else, seek a different engine.

After I finish my game I'm switching to GMS, but I'll probably keep C2 for making short demo versions that people can try over the net before they decide to buy my games or not.

Tokinsom wrote:Everyone would have switched to Unity or GMS if it were that easy. Thing is...how many of us can create games of the same calibur using them? Even then I find the workflow to be completely bonkers in comparison. Seriously - go check out how to create and animate a simple sprite-based game character. As for GM...it's an incredibly buggy and obtuse piece of software if you ask me. I am truly baffled by how popular it is.


About GMS being buggy and having bad workflow; I guess that's why Construct 2 has so many games to showcase! It has.. um.. Erm... Oh yeah, nothing. Same as GMS, except for Hotline Miami, Steal Bastard, Spelunky, WizardWizard, Wanderlust: Adventures, Risk of Rain, Gods Will Be Watching, Top Hat, Metaloid. Oh wow that's actually quite a lot, and that's just off the top of my head. Even CC has more games (like 2, The Iconoclasts and Minitroid).

As for making a simple sprite-based game character, I've done it before in Unity with the help of a tutorial and it wasn't hard. As for GMS, it made more sense than C2, an object is supposed to have sprites, not the sprite be an object itself. Unity does this as well.

I don't see why you think GMS is bad and hard to work with, I've made a couple small games with it and it's completely fine.
Also the community seems a lot better and more mature than C2's one, I've seen complete engines being shared and thrown around. I myself scored a Metroid Zero Mission engine for GM8 (that can be imported into GMS) that's 3/4 done and a 2D Minecraft engine. Considering this is easily able to be exported to PC natively, it's a huge improvement over your ZM engine that you did in C2 (which I remember begging you to let me see for like 4 months).

Meanwhile everyone on C2 forums hoards their engines like everyone is a thief. :lol:

C2 is basically the next generation of flash, it should be used for browsers only, or very short demos. But by no means for a full game.
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Post » Sun May 03, 2015 10:12 pm

@Nesteris I get your points but you have to consider that GM is like 15 years old and many of the popular games made in it were by veterans. Having lots of games for it doesn't mean it isn't still buggy and obtuse. MMF2 is considered one of the most antiquated and poorly designed engines out there by some, yet it still has a lot of successful and popular games and even more on the way. Also, C2 has more games than you think. A few are even doing well on Steam. Either way, Unity is ultimately superior to all of em so anyone looking to jump ship is probably better off with that.
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Post » Mon May 04, 2015 1:23 am

@Tokinsom

GM might be 15 years old, but Unity is also around that age. Just because they've been released a long time ago doesn't mean they aren't being updated. If it really was as buggy as bad as you say it is, I doubt it would have that many games done and dusted by that engine. I noted seeing in the showcase that a lot of the people there are actually fairly young. The guys who did Risk of Rain appear to be in their early twenties, and they were in University when they did it, one of the developers look like they're 15 themselves.

As for veterans of the software, you yourself have been here 4 years, Aphrodite has been here 3 years, we have tons of other members who've been here since the beginning and there's still no showcase worthy games... Unless you count Darkbase 01.

It's one thing if you're a long time user of a game development engine that uses code, because you have to learn code and such.
But Construct 2 has a "no code required" thing to it, so people should be popping out games left and right. Instead we have people talking about how they're switching to other engines and how C2 basically slapped them into not earning money.

"C2 has more games than you think"
All I can think of is: Airscape (Not released yet as far as I know), Coin-Op Story (still in alpha), Cosmochoria (no idea of the status), The Next Penelope (who switched) and, Mortar Mellow.

MMF2 (which could totally be misconstrued as a porn genre, now you cannot unsee):
Clickteam made their debut with Klik & Play in 1994, it may be antiquated and poorly designed, but compared to C2 it still more powerful and stable, not to mention it has the native export advantage over C2.

GMS, I'm just going to lay this here from 2012.
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Now, you could argue that that was in 2012, and things have changed, C2 has gotten better, yadda yadda.
But then consider this: Things haven't changed enough (or at all) because we still have people saying the exact same thing 3 years later.

Bottom line, with C2 we're still waiting on basic features and bug fixes that aren't going to come as Sccira's moved on to C3.
Exports that we're told are impossible to make and we're still holding our thumbs saying "Let's just wait and see."
That's fine, if you're got time to waste and a steady source of income so that you're not depending on anything.

For the rest of the world, bad bad news.

Maybe Ashley should re-open CC and fix it.

In any case; While other engines such as GMS (formerly GM), Unity and a bunch of others (even Stencyl, Stencyl!!) have improved a lot. They've each improved immensely, GMS broadened with major bug fixes, new features, performance updates, new exporters, better UI. Unity3D added in major support for 2D games, tons of new development features and improvements, new exporters, better UI.
Stencyl I hear went through a major performance improvement.

Meanwhile, C2 fixed a few bugs, brought in others and watched people develop wrappers like it was a Prime Time TV show then shifts blame on said tv show when customers complain of literally everything.

When you buy something, you expect it to work correctly, if not, then you expect to get fixed. You don't expect the seller to tell you
"Hold on a couple years while these people who have literally nothing to do with me maybe fix what is part of the default features in every other engine. But don't hold your breath if you think they're not going to introduce more bugs!"



I'm not trying to hate on C2 or anything, I wish it was a lot better. The editor is amazing, but that's 90% of what's good about C2, the other 10% is how fast and easy it is to learn and get an example set up. Everything else is bugs and performance issues.

The real reason why other engines such as Unity, GMS, UE(Number), and a bunch of others have showcase games and a good history is because they fix issues instead of hopping onto the next feature like a cocaine crazed magpie seeing something shiny.

IMHO, C2 should only ever be used for browser only games. Not PC, not mobile. Just browser. C2 is effectively the next iteration of Flash but without the scripting. Although Flash could always be used to make a desktop game and performance would be reliable.

Probably made this post way too long.
The moderators are corrupt and ban for no reason, especially that condescending neckbeard asshole Kyatric. The forums are filled with fanboys.
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Post » Mon May 04, 2015 2:17 am

Aphrodite wrote:I agree that when even the html5 export cannot work reliably, we have an issue, also I am slightly worried that chrome will break our content in the future, Sure, we can update our games with a newer C2 if a breaking change happens, but the web will be there for a longer time than C2 itself so at one point, currently they seem to choose the "we ditch useless things", that is also a real issue with native technology it seems as a lot of my games cannot work properly anymore without a patch, and since the web seems to evolve at a faster pace I am unsure about the stability long term wise Across browsers (even with new browsers that may just appear).


you are right, this a problem in all software development. anyone who makes software and/or OSs and/or frameworks update ALL the damn time. you have to support your game after it's done or it will become vaporware... I was on a team that created a decent sized iPhone game back in 2010, we all went on to other projects and the main programmer was too difficult to work with, a year later Apple changed a basic function in Objective C which completely broke our game. The programmer was gone, we had to act quick to pull the game off the app store before people bought it since it didn't work at all.

So the fact that C2 relies on browsers (and its not mutual - meaning browsers don't care about C2 and only see us as a faceless crowd of HTML5 developers), I'm still confident that as long as C2 devs are supporting their games, Ashley and team will find a way to keep things running. Of course Scirra could close it's doors tomorrow and we'd all be screwed. I think that's also a common fear/issue for most users of high-level software.

Look at Fraps.. their last update was in 2013. Win8.1 came out and now Fraps cannot capture monitor without a go between app like Xsplit.
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Post » Mon May 04, 2015 2:49 am

Starring - for what it's worth!! :D

EDIT: additional content removed in the interest of keeping this on topic after giving @UberLou later comment some serious thought....

After all we all love C2 and want these third party issues sorted.....
Last edited by michael on Tue May 05, 2015 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
If it can be done, someone on the web will show you how to do it!

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Post » Mon May 04, 2015 2:49 am

sqiddster wrote:2. Chrome runs like absolute rubbish below 60fps
For some reason, any time a C2 game dips below 60fps in Chrome, bad things start happening. 59fps is literally unplayable in a fast-paced action game like Airscape.
This may or may not be more of an issue on fillrate intensive games, more testing needs to be done here.
If this issue was fixed it would bring an 100% increase in effective performance in C2 games, as anything from 30-60fps should be perfectly playable.


I think this is relative to the computer. My game is getting quite large. It runs at 60 fps on my desktop. I have an unbound layout and uses a minimap. It keeps track of every object in the "game world". I have spawners constantly spawning objects. I have to cap the spawning at 500. If I run the game layout (not hitting F4) it skips loading my cap code. So in testing I always see my game get taxed and when the object count goes up over 800 the fps dips and 50 fps looks horrible. However, on my ($400 USD) laptop (i5 4GBram) running the normal game it runs at around 35-40 fps but totally plays fine.. you can tell it's not as "tight" as my desktop, but I had a play test at a small festival and no one noticed anything.

But I'd like to offer any support I can to put my vote in to support C2 for desktop games. I've been working on my game for almost 2 years and while I wish I was using Unity, I wouldn't be ANYWHERE as close as I am now to finishing this game. And I wouldn't have grown into gamedev without the success I've had with C2. I've used many game engines, Spring, Torque, Unity, Gamemaker, Unreal, Xcode, and even some engine that came with a book I bought in 1997 called the Black Art of Windows Game Programming. So I very much appreciate C2 and would love to see it support larger games.
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Post » Mon May 04, 2015 4:51 am

I'll have to agree with the general sentiment. I'm sure we all feel screwed simply because we put our bet on this HTML5 tech. On one hand, HTML5's pretty awesome for general... HTML things, but as for gaming, I don't know. Scirra took a gamble @ HTML5, and so did we for purchasing the software.

My main concern is the publishing and monetization part. Since these are often done at the end of the creation and polishing game creation process, you don't want to realize you're screwed only after investing a lot of time and effort into doing something that will only give you (unworkable?) problems when it comes to showcasing it to the world and earning from it.

Well, does anyone here have experience with HaxeFlixel or Flambe? I'm looking at doing non-retro looking platformer and I see a lot of demos there - usually of the retro look so I'm hoping I'm not limited to doing that stuff at least when it comes to HaxeFlixel.

PS: Here's another thing I don't quite understand with HTML5 games: 60FPS for a game and depending on the jank spike, anything that dips below that becomes unplayable? Seriously? I know that it's 30FPS that's supposedly playable, minimum at a reasonable 24. So how did it come to this?
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