About the jerkiness on the movement...

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:59 pm

...Or stuttering as it has been described on other topics. This is starting to get on my nerves, while it is certainty subtle, this jerkiness on moving objects, scrolling backgrounds and anything that has to have a smooth movement in general, the more I test and fiddle around with Construct, the more evident and annoying it gets. In this topic how-do-i-smooth-move-forward_t115540?start=20 R0J0hound gives some intelligent input to the non educated like my self, I keep the garbage collection procedure as one candidate for the problem, the issue is how to eliminate this thing. I can not accept this as a handicap on C2 generated games. As a little issue that perhaps the average angry bird user wont notice. It's a real problem both aesthetically and gameplay wise in fast paced & tight controlled games.

I've finally made a 60 fps screen capture of a simple test capx. The problem is vastly exaggerated from the video capture, but it is indicative as to how this jerkiness looks like. There are some parts in the video that the movement is smooth and notice that the fps are 99% of the time at 60. In reality, on every layout cycle the jerkiness will happen 3 or 4 times. So, this means than every 5-7 seconds (on average) the user will experience an unwanted jerkiness that will disconnect him or her from the desired gameplay.

Here is the video file zipped:
C2JerkingMovement.zip


And here is the capx.
NonSmoothMovementTest.capx

@Ahsley, if this HTML5 & browser related and can not be fixed, then it's a serious problem on the direction Scirra has taken with no native export. This isn't something that needs benchmarks to see, it's obvious to the naked eye and it should be addressed. My question is, can it be addressed? Is it something that Scirra can do to fix this?
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Last edited by eli0s on Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:10 pm

when I run the capx (preview or exported) it doesn't look like the video..

EDIT: I guess you said the video exaggerates it, but I only get one moment of jerkiness (if at all) right on the initial load.

Not that I haven't experienced the jerkiness, I'm just not seeing it here.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:14 pm

I saw that problem in the past actually, and I think GC is the culprit, as I remember some updates lowering it a lot in some of my projects, I would say it is possible to fight it (I think it is:

Duration of a tick min(1/Vsync, (time took by the GC when it cleans up+max(time for rendering, time for logic))), so if we can have guidelines on how to reduce the amount of garbage, and if some updates helps with that, that could be done.)

Also, that would mean that an higher end computer will not see the problem as much due to the speed of rendering and logic, so if you do not sees it, that could be why, but this problem exists.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:37 pm

Also, one should keep in mind that html5 is a relative new way of game development, that still is in it's beginning with a lot of things to improve. I think in the future we will have less problems, as browser support, performance and stability will improve for sure. But until then, one should consider if C2 is the right tool for his project. If you want make fast, heavy action games with lot of things going on, maybe you should choose another tool, like Unity or Game Maker, that offers 'true' native export. I don't say, that Scirra should not try to improve and fix these issues, but everything has it's limits and maybe they just can't be fixed right now.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:27 pm

OP, do you have webGL enabled in the browser that you took that video from? That is the exact same stuttering I get when webgl is off for any reason, and FPS seems irrelevant when it happens.

Can you double check the webgl is active? This also would explain why others running it don't share the issue.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:42 pm

Chupup Games wrote:Also, one should keep in mind that html5 is a relative new way of game development, that still is in it's beginning with a lot of things to improve. I think in the future we will have less problems, as browser support, performance and stability will improve for sure. But until then, one should consider if C2 is the right tool for his project. If you want make fast, heavy action games with lot of things going on, maybe you should choose another tool, like Unity or Game Maker, that offers 'true' native export. I don't say, that Scirra should not try to improve and fix these issues, but everything has it's limits and maybe they just can't be fixed right now.


I can't accept the fact that HTML5 is a new gaming platform for this particular issue. Having a constant, smooth movement is a foundational premise and one should build the rest of the game upon that. I am criticizing the fact that in any simple capx with 10 sprites and 3 events the user's experience will be compromised by this kind of jerky behavior. I don't think that I should need unity to create something as elementary as the example I posted here and run it without hiccups.

@skelooth , I use chrome to check my tests, I find chrome to be the fastest browser and more reliable in sound issues currently. Yes, the webgl is enabled (not disabled in the chrome://flags), I have an nvidia gtx 660 ti on my system and my graphic drivers are up-to-date. I repeat that the capture does not represent reality, the jerkiness in this video is very frequent and evident most of the time. I am posting it however because it captures and portrays the thing that I describe and name "jerkiness", just to make sure that we are all on the same page. In reality, every few seconds (between 5 and 10 or so) this "thing" happens, it lasts for a fraction of a second and it looks like the object that is in motion goes back and forward, occasionally with ghosting frames in-between, just as you can see in the video.

Perhaps my eyes are hyper sensitive to the motion, frankly, I am puzzled that this subject isn't brought up more often by other users. I don't think that they don't experience it, my guess is that they choose to ignore it as a minor issue. However, I don't accept it as something trivial, I believe that this is a major flaw for any final project. I am not trying to blame Scirra for it, I just have to know if there is something that can be done about it or not.
Last edited by eli0s on Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:52 pm

I agree 100% with @eli0s. I've noticed this jerky movement, especially at the start of a layout, and it's a real quality spoiler. There are plenty of html5 games that don't suffer from stuttering and I would expect C2 should be able to produce the goods with respect to quality rendering, especially for simple layouts like the example posted above.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:09 pm

"I use chrome to check my tests, I find chrome to be the fastest browser and more reliable in sound issues currently. Yes, the webgl is enabled (not disabled in the chrome://flags)"

Maybe it's being reported incorrectly? Do webgl only effects display? My experience is that C2 is always smooth with webgl, even at low frame rates its consistent, but non webgl is always very jerky, and have tested this on 5 machines/devices. , win7, android, linux, linux in a vm, win8, using a variety of methods (manually disabling gpu, using different browser, etc) to cripple or enable the webgl.

This is literally all I have to go on.

It looks like either DT is inconsistent or there is some sort of pixel rounding issue in certain contexts. at least to my eyes. (I keep harping on pixel rounding problems because if things are being rounded wrong or being forced to render at solid positions, you could get a discrepency of as much as 2 pixels per tick, and that would have a net effect of looking a lot like the jerkiness we're seeing).

Again though, I've only seen it happen in non webgl mode.

And to note, I do not believe it's C2's doing. I'm pretty convinced this is a technical limitation to canvas.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:16 pm

On my old wheezing laptop, webgl off produced smoother scrolling than when it was on...

So I just did a rather unscientific webgl on/off test on the layout I'm working on - and webgl off is smoother by a country mile (Intel HD4600 and i7 with more RAM than I will ever need). That's not right, is it?

Edit to add that after 10-15 secs the webgl on scrolling becomes smooth, it's only a visible issue at the start of the layout.
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Post » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:33 pm

Check your GPU benchmarks. I assume games run okay? Do you ever get artifacting? maybe you have a specific hardware problem? Because you're right, it should go in the opposite direction, especially with a 660 it should be able to crank out 100s of fps (i get solid 120fps on my 120hz monitor for simple c2 apps)

Edit:

Oversight on my part, do you have many webgl only effects enabled? Because that would explain the non intuitive frame rate change.
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