About the jerkiness on the movement...

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:45 pm

@Eli0s: I tested your example in Chrome, IE, FF, Opera, and the nodekit preview.

- Nodekit preview: it runs completely smooth EXCEPT for a jerk that occurs every 7 seconds or so at a regular interval.

- Chrome 37: it runs completely smooth EXCEPT for a jerk that occurs every 7 seconds or so at a regular interval.

- Chrome 38.0.2125.104 (I updated after testing in v37): much jerkier than v37. There is still the regular interval jerk every 7 seconds, but also smaller erratic jerks were introduced after updating to the latest version. Quite worrying.

- Firefox 33: initially quite jerky with bouts of smoothness, then after some time it becomes quite smooth BUT jerks that are similar to Chrome occur, and these are quite erratic and ugly looking. Worse, at times the player completely disappears for a while, only to re-appear later (can last a second or two). When the jerks occur at the same moment the collision is supposed to occur between the player sprite and the wall, the sprite overshoots the wall, and disappears!

This is not only a visual issue, but potentially can break your game completely. This happened one time in Opera as well.

- Opera: jerky when it loads up initially, then settles down in a regular smooth and jerky movement cycle that takes ~.3 sec smooth, jerk, ~.3 sec smooth, jerk. Every 15 or so jerks there is a larger jerk at a regular interval, just like Chrome.

- IE 11: runs completely smooth EXCEPT for that jerk again that occurs every 7 seconds or so at a regular interval.

To see if the browsers needed more 'power', I assigned the highest priority to the execution of each browser in Windows. No difference (except that almost 10% of cpu power was utilized, compared to at most 2~3% at the default priority. (Done with Process Explorer.)

Now, to test if this regular larger interval jerk is caused by something specific to Construct, I also tested this javascript Gauntlet found here: http://codeincomplete.com/games/

I get similar jerks in all the browsers.

Then I decided to test Shank2 (2d scrolling beat'm up). Smooth, BUT again that larger interval jerk DID occur even in Shank2 (which plays at full screen).

Finally, I tested Rogue Legacy, and yes, there is that larger interval jerk again. In the course of all the action in both games you do not notice it, but once you are aware of it, it does irritate a bit.

Anyway, on my system the major jerk is not caused by html5/js or Construct, it seems. In certain browsers jerky movement is introduced, though, and that seems to be browser dependent.

Lastly, I would be interested in seeing more formal testing done related to this issue. For example, I wonder whether my system's video card may be the culprit as far as that larger interval jerk is concerned. I have not noticed it happening in 3d games, though.
Win7 64- i7 [email protected], p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, ATI 7970 3gb, EVGA 590 3GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode
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Post » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:08 pm

@Rayek , thank you for your time and effort! In some cases this is even worse than the thing I experience and complain about!!! I tried some of the games at codeincomplete and the stuttering exists for me also. This indeed has to be browser related and it looks like we can't do anything about it. I hadn't had the chance to play Shank2 or Rogue Legacy, are those two HTML5/JavasSript games that run on a browser? Is this the reason that you do a performance comparison with them?
composer - multimedia artist
www.eli0s.com/en/
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Post » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:29 pm

here are 2 videos of running the examples, i dotn get jerkiness like the one on @eli0s video (the initial jerkiness its becuase the starting of Fraps)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q89x7ifq99829 ... 8.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/61s1iu9nkg9hr ... 3.mp4?dl=0

BUT! i do on my game, wich is quite advanced now, from time to time it will skip a frame and it will lagspike, but this looks too random for me to pin point what is causing it.
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Post » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:54 pm

eli0s wrote:@Rayek , thank you for your time and effort! In some cases this is even worse than the thing I experience and complain about!!! I tried some of the games at codeincomplete and the stuttering exists for me also. This indeed has to be browser related and it looks like we can't do anything about it. I hadn't had the chance to play Shank2 or Rogue Legacy, are those two HTML5/JavasSript games that run on a browser? Is this the reason that you do a performance comparison with them?


No, I wanted to compare the performance of two desktop non-browser 2d games, because I did not know if that larger interval jerk is browser related, or not. Both Shank2 and Rogue Legacy display a slight jerk every 7~8 seconds when playing.

So that one is not browser or Construct related. Something in either my hardware or software is causing that one. If/when I find out more related to that issue, I will let you know.

I also have a feeling it might be video card vendor related up to a point. What kind of video card do you have installed?
Win7 64- i7 [email protected], p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, ATI 7970 3gb, EVGA 590 3GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode
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Post » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:28 am

@Lunatrap , at first I was like "whaaat?" but then I realized that the embedded dropbox player destroyed the framerate for some reason, so I downloaded your mp4s, imported them into After Effects and checked them frame by frame. And you are right, after 5 seconds or so there is no stuttering at all! However, your recordings are only 14 seconds long and this phenomenon seems to be of a sporadic and unpredictable nature. Perhaps if you let my example run 3 or 4 circles and on Colludium's example run through the whole layout back and forth (end to end) a few times...? Maybe there just wasn't enough time for the problem to occur in your system.

@Rayek , ok I see. I did play Dust: an Elisium Tale recently (it's an amazing game btw) and it run buttery smooth. I believe that the guy who made it used microsoft xna (?) to build it.

My video card is an Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti by Gigabyte. The CPU is an old Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 overclocked to ~3.7Ghz and there is 16Gb of ram installed on my system. I also can play most modern 3d titles with no fps dropouts, unless I push the settings to very high in which case I do get low fps, I guess due to CPU bottleneck.

@Ashley , I've just noticed that windows say that my main monitor runs at 59Hz (it's a Dell u2711). There is an option for 60Hz but windows always reverts it back to 59. I did a search about it and I found this article ( http://en.community.dell.com/support-fo ... t/19458185 ) that says that the monitor run at 59.94hz and this is a windows bug. However, I always view my tests on a browser that sits on my Cintiq 12UX which acts as a secondary monitor and runs at 60 Hz. Is it possible that this 59 Hz thing causes syncing issues on my system?
composer - multimedia artist
www.eli0s.com/en/
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Post » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:54 am

I have done a lot of research on this topic as this is one big issue for me.
my game seems to have a poor quality because of this, and it really anoys me. i cant make a game i love with construct 2 even if i love construct 2.

here are my thoughts on this:

1) it is NOT a construct problem! the jitter/stutter is everywhere in html5.
take a look here: http://www.thewildernessdowntown.com/
you ddont have to start the film. there are birds flying around smoothly and suddenly they begin to stutter, then they fly smoothly again.
i see this issue with EVERY html 5 game where are objects moving. even with the simplest animation (using chrome or firefox).

2) we are not alone with this problem and its not "new" so html 5 is new doesnt count. smooth movement and good audio are some of the MOST IMPORTANT things and should be the first things that work perfectly!

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2241 ... on-stutter
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1419 ... -in-chrome

3) it is NOT a hardware problem, at least in most cases. it doesnt matter if its a galaxy s2(crosswalk) or my "high end" gaming pc. this issue of the "micro stuttering" is always present

4) @Colludium with the framedrop on start of layout: move all the objects you are using to the menu. then destroi them.
it will better the lag when starting the main layout. at least that solves the 25fps for 5 seconds on start of layout problem for me ;)

5) we should look out mfor any information if this will befiuxed in a later version of canvas.
i am especially speaking of crosswalk developpers. maybe they con do something. the least we should do is adress this issue to development teams of the software that causes it.

6) if those issues dont get fixxed within the next 6 month i really see no pont to develop with html5 at all. @eli0s i totally understand your frustration, its the same with me.
the point is we (the developpers) did nothing wrong than chosing html5/canvas over a engine whith can handle our demand. html5/canvas might be god for point and click / drag and drop games. but nothing with "fast" animations then.

7) @ashley thanks for reporting that issue. the interesting part for me (and i think for many others) will be when the crosswalk team implements the update (i speaking about the intel xdk for android releases)
should we directly report this to the crosswalkteam (https://crosswalk-project.org/contribut ... _bugs.html)? or just wait till chromium has fixxed this issue and then report it there?

kind regards
joschi
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Post » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:53 am

@j0schi

Ashley already linked these, but again:

Chrome Bug Report: Chrome issue 424563
Firefox Bug Report: Firefox bug 1028893

Nobody has commented on the firefox bug in two months (Ashley was the last). If nobody complains, this won't be fixed.
Don't lose your work. Backup your game with Dropbox.
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Post » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:56 pm

Thank you all for your advice and thoughts.

So, after @TiAm started a thread about the performance gains of making an object dormant instead of destroying it, I adjusted my earlier demo so that it no longer creates any sprites during run time. And, for my eyes at least, after destroying a few objects as @j0schi suggested (thank you x 1000 for that great advice!!), the 'game' now runs very smoothly right from the start....

While tinkering around with the settings, I found that the performance improved only if the objects that are to be destroyed are created inside the layout (I initially set them to be created at -200, -200 and that had no effect on the first 10 seconds of garbage collection; it was smooth thereafter, however).

So, create and then destroy some stuff inside the layout and then don't create/destroy sprites during run time.... What about particles? I don't think they cause any stuttering. I'll try and put together another example to see if there are any limits / gains worthy of note.
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A big fan of JavaScript.
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Post » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:56 pm

Crosswalk is just a custom build of Chromium, so I don't think there's any point reporting it to them as well, just wait for it to get fixed in Chromium.

A monitor running at 59 Hz will probably not help! A lot of games and possibly browsers are tuned to work at 60 Hz since it's the most common refresh rate, and being slightly off that could make you drop frames...
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Post » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:12 pm

allright Ashley, thank you very much!
@Colludium, i am glad it helped. your demo now runs much better, i would say even if there are some jerk its one of the smoothest things i saw in html 5 so far... hahah

regards
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