[quote="Madster":28g4a6t8]okay, say you have depth per object. This depth is..... PER OBJECT. So, any light occlusion effects will happen PER OBJECT.... thus doing them PER PIXEL is overkill. Just fake it with another object, as it will essentially be a drop shadow. DoF also doesn't make any sense in 2D. I did post a variable blur shader, that when applied to a whole layer accomplishes what you'd probably call DoF... but it's way simpler and doesn't rely on depth..[/quote:28g4a6t8]
True, but the way I'm looking at it, is all those objects have different depth maps, which all make up one full screen depth map. Now if you apply the SSAO shader to the full screen, it grabs the depth map of everything there, rather than individual objects only (which I agree would be kinda pointless and wasteful), so you've got faked AO across the entire gamescreen regardless what's going on in the game. To bake all that into your artwork and take into account objects passing other objects is out of the question.
As for DOF, yeah I can agree with you there. A DOF shader would just serve to simplify the effect, but in the end results in practically the same look. I think I have played around with your blur shader btw, it's the one that can be used to create a motion blur effect without the painful overhead of using the built in motion blur, right? At least that's how I planned on using one along those lines, and in tests it didn't kill framerate!
[quote:28g4a6t8]So you have a frame-based animation. This animation has a depth animation, where each frame has a corresponding depth map. This depth map has a SSAO shader. Notice that since SSAO is calculated on the depthmap that only changes with each animation frame, the results will also only change with each animation frame...
Now, consider baked ambient occlusion. You only have animation, no depth... you have REAL AO, since you'd get it from your renderer of choice. No shader. Results also change with each animation frame.
Same effect, half the texture memory, much faster, much simpler.
Thus, SSAO in 2D is pointless.[/quote:28g4a6t8]
But like I say, you're then stuck with what you've got baked into your artwork. Which is perfectly fine for static objects or certain situations and it's a well used trick of the trade. But interactive area's and objects could benefit, BUT only if it's done right. Flat drop shadows are ok to a point, but they show up the 2Dness of things, unless they can make use of a depth map (or height map) to shape the shadow in realtime across something behind them. The option to use either would be the best bet, as there's lots of uses for drop shadows and SSAO.
Parallax Occlusion Maps would have their uses though. Here's a quick example
It would help to bring a little more depth to a game, a subtle but useful effect.
Course, end of the day, it's all down to how a game is made. They didn't have none of these things in the old days and got around them all via various tricks.
[quote:28g4a6t8]I only say this because I see a lot of people go and play Crysis or whatever and then come back and excitedly ask for something they saw there to be in Construct.... but VERY FEW 3D effects make sense in 2D.[/quote:28g4a6t8]
Heh yeah, we were using all these things for years then video games started using similar things and suddenly every gamer in the world was an "expert" on them and had to use them in EVERYTHING, lol. Was like with Babylon 5 making lens flares popular, suddenly everything had to have a bloody awful lens flare stuck on it, or Poser, spawning countless thousands of badly made Poser "art".
Personally I'm more a fan of putting as much detail into something than relying on realtime effects than I might seem. But I can't help but be very, very curious how some of these effects could be used in a 2D only situation. Same with physics, everyone said it could never work in 2D, then someone went and did it, and well, now we've got 2D physics and it's pretty useful
Besides it's no secret how I feel about the whole "oh oh lets make construct 3D!!!!1111oneoneoneeleven", it's a 2D app and should remain a 2D app. It has a good chance of being a very popular one, but if it tries to be 3D or a jack of all trades, it's doomed. But things like parallax occlusion, SSAO, normal maps, realtime lighting/shadows (that use an objects shape not it's bounding box plzkthx lol) or even a behavior along the lines of the apparantly abandoned #6 challenge, for getting certain shadow effects easily. They all have their uses in 2D too. Not as immediately obvious as they would be in 3D. But uses all the same.
What I'd like to see is construct drop the whole 3D box thing, but focus on allowing things to have internal depth, using the grayscale maps, and soft shadow casting. Imagine a top down game in a haunted house, shadows flickering across the floor, rooms in darkness, pushing open a physics enabled door that lets some light in just as something jumps out of the shadows and and and.. lol yeah