Announcement PR wreck so far...

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:40 pm

Zonacas wrote:@AnD4D You do not understand what i mean

por cierto te lo dire en español

No hay más necio que el que no quiere entender ni aprender.


They said: By the way, I'll tell you in Spanish

There is no more fool than he who does not want to understand or learn


So I replied:

Tal vez la barrera del idioma es un problema.

Which means: Maybe the language barrier is a problem.
Last edited by AnD4D on Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
@bearboxmedia
www.bearboxmedia.com

Nintendo Wii U Developer using Construct 2
B
79
S
12
G
7
Posts: 961
Reputation: 10,717

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:49 pm

AnD4D wrote:
Zonacas wrote:@AnD4D You do not understand what i mean

por cierto te lo dire en español

No hay más necio que el que no quiere entender ni aprender.


Tal vez la barrera del idioma es un problema.


Come on people, you know the rules.

Please post in English or provide an English translation. I have no idea what's going on here :/
If your vision so exceeds your ability, then look to something closer.
Moderator
B
131
S
29
G
81
Posts: 5,328
Reputation: 56,630

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:43 pm

AmpedRobot wrote:Listen, I have nothing against Scirra because I've worked for a long time on a game in C2 and am about to release it (even though I gripe a lot). My biggest peeve with C2 is the almost complete lack of documentation of anything really useful. The manual is extremely sparse. And you're expected to hunt for little bits and pieces of useful code in dozens of different sources, tutorials, and videos, and everyone gets on your case if you didn't do a zillion Google searches (well that used to be the case, not anymore; the community has gotten a lot better or maybe those used to be fake accounts). This literally leads to hundreds of hours of frustration and wasted time for software that's supposed to be "intuitive" and "user friendly." I'm pretty sure Scirra, if not the founder has made millions at this point. Honestly, what would it cost, just to hire a person to concatenate all the most useful examples and codes in some time of library or preferably the manual, which from a layman's perspective is a joke.

This is supposed to be software to make our lives easier, and honestly, for someone who's over 40, it has been a nightmare. It has gotten easier with a lot of support from the community, which has been great (and all it took was a 4 year part-time apprenticeship haha), but not before I had to pull my hair out. Some of it has been useful because I learned a lot, but honestly the curve could have been significantly shortened by someone who cared.

I get the feeling C3 is going to be the same way. There is a remarkable lack of caring in terms of making the software user friendly and easy to learn which is exactly what C2 purports to do.

#





I totally agree with you in every aspect with the lack of documentation
I couldn't agree more with you, I have exactly the same problem I don't think is the age or anything like that, I'm still on middle thirty and i experienced the same
The lack of documentation is frustrating because you end up going in circles without any direction, back and forwards like you stated we have to keep finding (bits and pieces of useful code in dozens of different sources, tutorials, and videos) like a puzzle, witch that way, I ended Up with nearly close to two years now learning C2 and still I haven't got any foundation to start and finish a game. And is not because I'm lazy or i don't have the time, because i spend endless of days and nights looking, studying and learning none stop because I really wanna learn, but the funny thing the most time consuming is searching for the right tutorial, capx, etc.... and it doesn't end there some times you spend weeks trying to find out how to do just one thing and when you finally find it, later on, you find another tutorial wich contradicts the first one. and that is very frustrating.
or some times you spend weeks months studying a particular tutorials for a concrete subject trying to understand in the best possible way, to find out later on another tutorial with different info and WTF, just to learn that the info in the first tutorial were you spent time and effort it was outdated because was from 3 or 4 years ago wich makes those tutorials outdated.
Then Guess what? you say to yourself ok maybe I'm not ready for any medium or big game so lets make a mini game and target the mobiles, so i can start and finish my first game and learn that way maybe is quicker and more rewarding much easier. so you enter in the second loop circle (screen sizes?aspect ratios?memory management? how many objects? how much CPU? don't put this behavior!! don't put that, don't put those effects!! some tutorials says one thing another one other things and you OOOOOMG!!!!
And If that wasn't enough you keep hearing all those horrible histories about exporting night mears etc....so you say man this is even worse how I'm going to do this? back to the beginning again star from zero let go back to PC platforms games and you keep going like this in circles.

So the point here is, if we had the right tutorials from the beginning the right documentation the best capx examples from the most important things that a game must have in each category, platform, RPG, etc......And all of it was in One place or section were are all the tutorials and capx are up to date not from 5 years ago, and some one maintaining it to keep them clean old from new. the most up to date info.
the things that took us years to learn maybe would have been just months if we had the right guide from the beginning and in one place.
I'm pretty sure this is happening to many people using C2 especially beginners like me, and I'm pretty sure that is why you don't see many success Games with C2, because its very hard to learn foundation without the right tutorials and guides. you get just confusion and not confidence in your self+ you spend 10 times more than you should have spent in learning.

The best part if is than correctly every one will win, example:
1-people who bout C2 or c3 will learn how to use C3 quicker, you will see more successful games more often that means more promotion for C3
2-scirra will have more people attracted to C3 = more sells = higher more people to work with C3= More awesome features for C3 = company grows

If it was me that i sell C2 or C3 i will make every effort to teach my customers the best and quickest possible ways on how to use my software to use the full power of my software + teach them how to make the games, tips on different ways of doing things and wich ones are with the best performances etc...... so they can be more chances that any of my customers can become successful, because that's mean more publicity for my business = more money to spend on higher more programers or teachers etc....... + more support for mobiles making it easier.
And I could say many more things but I think you get the point.
All of this I say it in the good way as an advice from my experience.
B
38
S
22
G
51
Posts: 211
Reputation: 29,505

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:55 pm

@zenox98 I updated my post... which is now full of irony :lol:
@bearboxmedia
www.bearboxmedia.com

Nintendo Wii U Developer using Construct 2
B
79
S
12
G
7
Posts: 961
Reputation: 10,717

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:19 pm

I work in Sales and Marketing as my day job.

In actuality people for the most part do not like change. Everybody knew that Scirra was working on C3. Everybody was hopeful for a new and wonderful engine. But with new technology comes other changes as well. Tom and Ashley are smart guys, they knew their desire to reign in control of C3 from pirating and to turn the company into a routine revenue driven business was going to upset most people who used their product.

So yeah, breaking the news first about C3 with things that people were not going to like, then slowing over the course of the months that lead up to release spread word of the better features is going to make people come around. It makes sense.

Bad publicity is still publicity and it gets a lot of attention. Then in the following Blog releases start to paint a prettier picture and things look brighter and better. Three weeks from now people are going to be eager for C3, and the initial news is going to fade and be less obtrusive when thinking about a subscription service.

I too was not overly thrilled about the news initially released. But I am very curious to see what features are coming, and already from the past couple days I am coming around to C3. I'm not the only.

There are a lot ways to do PR. I think Tom and Ashley know exactly what they are doing, and why they broke the initial news release the way they did. People don't like change. It takes them time to come around to certain things. And a subscription service is a big change to the way Scirra has been doing things.
B
18
S
6
G
7
Posts: 44
Reputation: 4,665

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:40 pm

@blurymind Thank you for the URLs.
B
128
S
33
G
17
Posts: 1,551
Reputation: 20,488

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:45 pm

AmpedRobot wrote:
Thndr wrote:I believe we can disregard any differences between win7 and win10 Chrome stops being updated for win7 or win7 can't benefit from specific functions.

Especially since in C3 it's all browser based and even works fine on a ChromeBook


The only major changes between win10 and win7 that are coming is new CPU support for AMD Ryzen, which I doubt will affect browsers.
Someone will probably at the very least make an open source driver for ReactOS that may work with Win7 just fine for that. https://www.reactos.org/


Huh, Chrome stops being updated for Win7, the op system C2 is approved for???

Typo sorry, I meant until chrome stops being updated.
B
21
S
8
G
6
Posts: 346
Reputation: 4,891

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:09 pm

blurymind wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
blurymind wrote:Even if it fails, by the time you have decided on another licensing model, a lot of the people here would have moved to the obvious contender - fusion3.


Is Fusion 3 multi-platform? Can I run it on a Mac? Just curious...


Fusion 3 editor will be multiplatform yes - confirmed to be developed and tested on windows, mac and linux. More than that - running natively - not inside a web browser.

Fusion 3 will have a similar license model to the current version of fusion 2 - with an upgrade discount for existing users.
You buy the editor, it comes with an exporter that compiles the game natively on the platform you are on.
You can buy separately native exporters for android, ios and even html5 - they go on special offers with huge discounts a few times in the year. Things like the event sheet have been reworked to be more modern. Disadvantages such as code reusal are also being addressed in fusion 3. So scirra is in a tough spot and things will only get worse when clickteam releases it - especially if the license price for lifetime is around the same price point as the yearly subscription of construct3 :|

btw here are some of the NATIVE indie games made on fusion 2 and 2.5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zq1yo0lxOU
nice frame rate there

fusion 2.5 runs almost perfect on mac and linux via wine. There will be no need for wine when 3 comes out - it will have native editor for each of the three platforms.
Construct2 does not run well with wine - you cant run a server to playtest your game and there are crashes.


Excellent! Exactly what I needed to hear right now. Thank you for that information. :)
B
14
S
7
G
3
Posts: 145
Reputation: 3,035

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:33 pm

Honestly I have never been a fan of the Fusion line myself.

If you're looking for a different multi-platform editor https://godotengine.org/ is a good choice IMO, albeit a little more complicated. The only export it uses a wrapper for is HTML5 as the rest are native exports, and it has an experimental FLOW scripting system that can be used.

I'd use it more myself other than playing around in, but what I tend to make needs web technology//javascript libraries which C2 covers (and I assume C3 will, hopefully even better due to the entire program being HTML5)
B
21
S
8
G
6
Posts: 346
Reputation: 4,891

Post » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:43 pm

blurymind wrote:Fusion 3 will have a similar license model to the current version of fusion 2 - with an upgrade discount for existing users.
You buy the editor, it comes with an exporter that compiles the game natively on the platform you are on.
You can buy separately native exporters for android, ios and even html5 - they go on special offers with huge discounts a few times in the year. Things like the event sheet have been reworked to be more modern. Disadvantages such as code reusal are also being addressed in fusion 3. So scirra is in a tough spot and things will only get worse when clickteam releases it - especially if the license price for lifetime is around the same price point as the yearly subscription of construct3 :|


No disrespect to Clickteam, but Fusion is - without a doubt - the "Fisher Price" of development tools. Its marketed squarely at the complete novice. Yes, its still possible to create some good games, but the more experienced game dev will constantly find themselves trapped and frustrated by its limitations.
Image
B
29
S
9
G
3
Posts: 170
Reputation: 3,297

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Namu2017, volgot2 and 1 guest