Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie

Discuss game development design and post your game ideas

Post » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:13 pm

Ok I have your attention...

I always seen people ask what they SHOULD DO to make or start the process of getting a game together but noone (as far as I HAVE seen) asked about the DON'Ts. So a Game Designer had articles he would publish I believe on Gamasutra called 'Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie' with each article something designers should avoid. It has been taken and put into a Database called the 'THE NO TWINKIE DATABASE'. So take a break from looking at the DO's and evaluate some of the DON'Ts :D.

http://www.designersnotebook.com/Design ... tabase.htm

Is he absolutely right? Maybe not but you would know something you might want to think twice about if you see one of your things on there. :)
B
23
S
4
G
2
Posts: 364
Reputation: 2,392

Post » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:40 am

I read a few of it, and while he does have a point on some things that are clear DON'Ts, some of the other things are entirely subjective to how the personal developer works. Some practices may make things more difficult, but if you work with them over time, you certainly will get better at your own methods, which would still end up with a nice game.

For beginners though, this would be a good strong tip guide for ways to learn some processes in general. I don't think every beginner should take EVERYTHING on the list word for word, but it is certainly showing you the room that you may have for improvement.
B
6
S
1
Posts: 9
Reputation: 418

Post » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:55 am

@kimicatdemon
Absolutely true. You always have to consider something maybe subjective. That is like a game reviewer doing a review on a genre that they really don't care for, most of their opinions would be subjective.
B
23
S
4
G
2
Posts: 364
Reputation: 2,392

Post » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:19 pm

@kimicatdemon & @PhoenixNightly
Ernest Adams' opinions aren't to be taken lightly. Seriously, guys, even if some things might sound subjective, read them again. This is not some random developer or game blogger, we're talking about a guy with decades of experience in the gaming industry, who wrote some of the best books ever written on game design. We can hardly prove him wrong... :)

Disclaimer: Yeah, I'm a fan. :)
Bruno

I like to eat, but I'm no cook. Why liking to play games would make you a game designer?
B
19
S
5
G
2
Posts: 535
Reputation: 3,237

Post » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:50 pm

I agree, some things are subjective, like per example, game difficulty and more accessible. Although most of what Ernest writes is right, in this case that would be subjective and based on the decision of the designer. making games more accessible is focusing on the market side of games and not as a creation. In this case, I would rather listen what Jonathan Blows says about the subject. Also, I wouldn't say Ernest wrote the best books/lectures in Game Design ever. You forget Chris Crawford, Warren Spector, Jesse Schell, among other.
B
43
S
12
G
14
Posts: 488
Reputation: 10,570

Post » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:49 pm

I wouldn't say that either. That's why I said "SOME of the best books ever written on game design". :)

Chris Crawford's books are not great. I love the guy and the books are worth reading, but they're not awesome. They are specially good to give a historical perspective of game development from a designer's point of view.

Jesse Schell, despite being far less experienced than both, has an awesome, and certainly one of the best too, book on game design: "The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses". It's a must read!

I'm a fan of Warren Spector, who is a great game designer, specially in the area of RPG design. He was part of TOON and contributed to the Paranoia universe. He's got awesome digital games published too, but I fail do remember any books on game design written by him. Could you give me some pointers, @FraktalZero? I'd love to read a book by him on the subject.
Bruno

I like to eat, but I'm no cook. Why liking to play games would make you a game designer?
B
19
S
5
G
2
Posts: 535
Reputation: 3,237

Post » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:38 pm

@brunopalermo
My subjective statement wasn't referring to him per se. If I thought what he said was a bunch of malarkey I wouldn't have shared it. I take his words with more weight. But I don't force people to agree with his views either, my statement is everyone have their own opinion . I feel what he list is good things to look out for now if someone implemented something that he said is a no no but they utilize a 'DON'T' that did work for them bravo on them. But I haven't seen everything in the database so I don't know what Kimicatdemon was referring to. I mean some people feel FPS Zombie RPG game isn't a good game or qualify to be called an RPG. Dead Island is and I love it.
B
23
S
4
G
2
Posts: 364
Reputation: 2,392

Post » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:20 am

@brunopalermo, thats why I mentionned lectures as well. The Art of Game Design by Jesse Schell is one of my favorite in my collection. Also Theory of Fun is quite good. I also love some books by Brenda Romero, who is quite insightful as well.
B
43
S
12
G
14
Posts: 488
Reputation: 10,570

Post » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:08 am

@FraktalZero Oh. I missed the part about lectures, sorry. I was thinking books. And, yeah, Brenda Romero's Challenges for Game Designers is one of the best out there too.

@PhoenixNightly It was a simple suggestion. I didn't want to put up a fight and I thought I had been clear when I mentioned that I, myself, I'm a fan, so my judgement is impaired by fan blindness. :) Still, even though everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, some people's opinion will be more valuable given their experience in a specific field. That was, in fact, my point. :)
Bruno

I like to eat, but I'm no cook. Why liking to play games would make you a game designer?
B
19
S
5
G
2
Posts: 535
Reputation: 3,237

Post » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:23 pm

game play good. thank you
B
2
Posts: 2
Reputation: 152

Next

Return to Game Development, Design & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests