C3 - Gambling

Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:52 pm

Hello @Tom, @Ashley and Construct users,
I noticed that in Construct3.net there is a "Gambling" section in "Pricing plans", and my question is - why?
Why Gambling businesses should be considered as a different kind of businesses with different pricing?

There is many business models of games:
One time purchase,
Buying in game currency, items, perks, skins and etc,
Monthly payments,
Expansion packs,
Free to play + Adds,
Free to play + Pay to win,
Crowd-funding,
Comercial-funding,
Missionary/evangelist-funding,
Campaign-funding,
And more...

And the only game that give you the opportunity to get back your money - is gambling.
Basically the gambling business model is "Pay to play", and yeah, it is not game of skill, it is a game of luck where the odds are not in your favor, but the player returns back about 97% of the money back, and players know what they are going for. Some people win, some loose.
But why from those 3% income (bruto) you want to charge more than from 100% income (bruto) of monthly payments model.

I'm tired that gambling games considered as some kind of taboo, many players love those kinds of games and someone have to deliver them what they want. Most of you don't even know how much regulations&licensing&restrictions&pain-in-the-donkey(ass) gambling games have to pass to be published. But anyone can deliver any crappy game and charge for cookie coins.
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:58 pm

Yura G wrote:But anyone can deliver any crappy game and charge for cookie coins.

Not really, if you intend to make actual money from gambling games - it's an incredibly tightly regulated industry, which is probably imposing enough to keep out any indie devs or even small companies. This particular aspect is aimed at large gambling corporations.
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:58 pm

Just to be clear, the "Gambling" sub section on the site licensing is yet to be announced.

It's not for the genre of game, but the company making the games. If you're making "Gambling style games" where no actual money is at stake you don't need a gambling Construct license from us. If you are making a game where actual money is at stake, you need a Construct gambling license.

Current draft states:

If your business has a gambling license or it's primary operation is related to the gambling industry, you must have a Construct 3 Gambling License.


We will price licenses to these types of businesses on a case by case basis. Their operations and intentions of usage of Construct are different enough for us to split them as a separate category of customer. In Gibraltar as an example, to make gambling games you need to pay a minimum of £85,000 per annum for a licensing fee (ignoring costs relating to compliance).

And the only game that give you the opportunity to get back your money - is gambling.
Basically the gambling business model is "Pay to play", and yeah, it is not game of skill, it is a game of luck where the odds are not in your favor, but the player returns back about 97% of the money back, and players know what they are going for. Some people win, some loose.
But why from those 3% income (bruto) you want to charge more than from 100% income (bruto) of monthly payments model.


Are you developing gambling games for money with a gambling license?
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:48 pm

I work in the gambling industry and if you're going to be dealing with real life money and actual payouts to customers it's not an easy road to take. A lot of regulations, compliance and licence costs etc. That's why most gambling companies license their games from big companies like "NetEnt" etc. I bet it's super hard to be compliant with regulations if you plan to create your own game clients.

But if you're creating "play for fun" casino games it's much more easy, as long as you don't plan to pay out any actual money to customers.

Many play for fun games, still sell tokens or "virtual cash" or something as IAP, or you can earn them in game. This is no problem as long as you don't do any actual cash payouts to customers. It's purely virtual currency for fun.

Still these type of "play for fun" casino games are currently the 2nd biggest (by revenue) segment in mobile gaming after casual games like "Candy crush, etc". So it's a huge and growing market, but if you want to do real casino games with real payouts is much much harder.
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:49 pm

Ashley wrote: ...enough to keep out any indie devs or even small companies... This particular aspect is aimed at large gambling corporations.

I disagree, Ashley.
If you aim to charge more big corporations, do it - charge more big corporations, but it does not have to be "gambling" dependent.
For example - it is the correct way to tax people according to the income, it is incorrect to taxt more white people than others because currently they tend to earn more.

Tom wrote:Are you developing gambling games for money with a gambling license?

Currently I'm considering a development of gambling games with Construct3, but as it seams, you are making it much harder.
In my previous words: I'm more like a poor white guy who are considering to apply for a new job but don't very convinced that the agreement is fair enough to sign it.

Tom wrote:Their operations and intentions of usage of Construct are different enough for us to split them as a separate category of customer.

That is my question, how different?
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:02 pm

One of the first thing you need to consider when doing real casino games with payouts is logging every single spin... This is required for compliance i believe. You also probably need to hire some really good mathematicians to calculate the RTP (Return to player), over millions of spins. Your aim is somewhere around 96%.

If your game has any bug or can be exploited you better make sure you have the money to cover a lawsuit from anyone licensing your game, as casino companies can lose a fortune if the players find exploits and win more than they spend.

I guess those two are your major biggest hurdles to overcome if you want to do actual casino games.

Play for fun games with cookie coins you can pretty much do what you want. you can have 120% RTP if you want.
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:07 pm

Currently I'm considering a development of gambling games with Construct3, but as it seams, you are making it much harder.


Again, if you're developing casino style games with no real money involved you don't need a gambling license.

If you're planning on developing actual gambling games with real money, our license will be the least of your worries because you had tens of thousands up to hundreds of thousands in yearly fees for gambling licenses and compliance.

Have you taken the initial steps of acquiring a real money gambling license?
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:46 pm

I know about gambling more than you might think.
But again: We are out of topic, my question is "WHY?"
Why it should be considered as other type of business model?
The question is more philosophical than practical.
What is the real difference between "Monthly paymant" and "Pay to play" if both businesses earn the same?
Or even "Pay to play" in arcade game machine back to back with "Pay to play" on slot machine?
If one is more regulated than the other, why does it mean that it should be taxed differently?
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Post » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:50 pm

Because it's what we've decided to do as they are a different enough customer to warrant a separate category.
Unity also categorise similarly.

What is the real difference between "Monthly paymant" and "Pay to play" if both businesses earn the same?
Or even "Pay to play" in arcade game machine back to back with "Pay to play" on slot machine?
If one is more regulated than the other, why does it mean that it should be taxed differently?


Because the law is explicit in this regard. There is an obvious, explicit and well defined difference legally between casino real money games - and other regular pay to play mobile games.
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