CC/C2 discussion

New releases and general discussions.

Post » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:14 am

If you're planning on using JavaScript for the game, I don't understand at all why you wouldn't want to use c2. You won't get any speed benefits because c2's runtime uses JavaScript as well, you'd have the same limitations c2 has, and you'd have to spend a lot of time learning the intricacies of working with JavaScript and its quirks, which c2 already does for you, and Ashley has put in a lot of effort to optimize it so it runs smoothly. It would be reinventing the wheel.

If you want to use JavaScript for something, just use the SDK and make a plugin.

You should also read scirra's blog about the advantages using c2 over coding your own game is straight js: https://www.scirra.com/blog/52/construct-2-vs-javascriptArima2013-02-03 06:16:28
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Post » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:09 am

CC is far from a sinking ship, you CAN still develop your own plugins/modify the source, so it works out that its a modular engine that does 99% of the things you want it to do much faster than you could yourself. I've never ran into the instabilities everyone seems to face, i really don't know how you guys are designing things. you should learn coding through plugin development if anything. you can offload everything that causes you lots of trouble into the plugins themselves, while retaining the ease of use of construct.
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Post » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:13 am

"or whatever to fits what I need." I guess is the catch.

I'm doing so much now in 3d its stupid, im creating normal maps using distorted sprites to make lighting maps and 3d physics. at some point, i should probably just use unity3d. witch uses javascript among other languages.

but I've been told several times, code language is simple, its every thing else that's hard.

and right now I'm doing almost everything using arrays, loops, and convoluted functions.

my collisions,objects,variables, path-finding, height maps, are all in arrays.

and that's awesome that i can do that with CC. and something i just dont think C2 will be able to handle for quite some time.

But It's terribly inefficient, and a lot harder than it needs to be.

I'm basically building an engine inside an engine... and that's kinda dumb...

..or not.. I really don't know, kinda what i'm hoping to find out on my programming pilgrimage.
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actually, ill just send you a PM with one of my current projects to give you an idea.
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@ QuaziGNRLnose
Ashley : "The way things are going, eventually these forums will fall silent and we'll probably see fit to discontinue Classic completely. We're not doing that now, because it's virtually zero work to leave these forums running and people still use them. But I think it's inevitable."

maybe the boats not sinking, but the captain jumped ship a long time ago.Bartosh2013-02-03 07:29:24
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Post » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:38 pm

@Bartosh - well, I want to say - whatever floats your boat ;)
Personaly, I don't see anything wrong with using a "sinking ship, without it's captain". There are great games created using older, or even obscure technologies. There is a lot, we can learn from those technologies..

...and it seems you did. I am not here to tell you that you continue using CC. To be honest, as a propmaker, I know that the right tools make the job. With your game idea, I would go with something along the ways of Unity - making your own engine, without a team, from a scratch is a lost cause, in my opinion.
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Post » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:40 pm

@ VonBednar
I think CC is a wonderful tool for most things,and can teach you a lot, trust me,before construct, i didn't even know what an array was.

My point of the "sinking ship, without it's captain" warning, is that nobody is doing any work on the project. and it desperately needs some.
so if your using it, be aware that there may be some holes you cant fix, and nobody's coming along to help.

If your fine with that, that's great. but go into it with both eyes open.
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I actually kinda got a team with my brother, he always said he would help me make games if i ever stopped using game-makers.

And I imagine most indie developers build an engine using scattered pieces of other engines. its just a process with more control on the foundation, witch is what i need to achieve what i want.

(for my specific case, its how it handles checking all sprites, even if they do nothing, this is a huge problem for rendering tile maps, and is such a key part to how construct works, i doubt its a simple plugin to fix.)

Hell, maybe i'll learn python, come back, and patch up the holes in construct that are crippling my games.or jump on the resurrection project.

like i said, i love the thing. so who knows.
Bartosh2013-02-03 18:45:09
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Post » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:00 am

@Arima - could you send me the perf tests you used for C2? It's always useful to have projects to optimise for. I've got on my todo list algorithmic optimisations for collision detection. At the moment both CC and C2 always collision check against all objects in the layout (discarding far away ones with a quick bounding box test). While that's not very smart, C2 suffers more with the slower execution speed. A future version of C2 should only even iterate nearby objects for collision testing, which should bring it closer (and possibly even surpass in some cases) to CC's performance.

I wouldn't performance test creating or destroying objects - neither are well optimised, and I don't think any real projects bottleneck on it. But nice to see how well C2 still held up to CC!

(And as you figured out, it's only fair to measure delta-time when comparing performance, since FPS is nonlinear)
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Post » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:29 am

My experiences with Construct Classic weren't very good. I don't get why so many people prefer it over Construct 2? The web is becoming the future platform for everything. Once HTML 5 is accepted as the new web standard, it will probably take over everything - including gaming.

I literally see no limitations that would stop me from creating a complex game. I look at limitations as strengths of creativity. If you can't find a workaround for your limitation, then you're not trying hard/creative enough to be honest.Helladen2013-02-04 08:32:54
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Post » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:45 pm

HTML5 may very well be the future. I bet in the future it will run crazy fast. And in the future some of the simple things that can be so complicated now, wont be so complicated.
So in the future, I'll use HTMl5.

when your things work in spite of the system, instead of because of the system, maybe its better to have a better system.

....apparently I'm feeling poetic today.
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Post » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:48 pm

[QUOTE=crowtongue]While your experience is definitely valuable, I don't 100% put stock in it. Konjak has been developing The Iconoclasts with this, and 6e6e6e has been making Radio The Universe with it. Both of those are full length polished games in the works, I believe they will both finish.[/QUOTE]

i'm flattered, but neither developers really endorse cc.

konjak has repeatedly expressed his lack of confidence in cc (and his reasons for not yet having transitioned away from it is mysterious to me). i myself am no longer using cc (nor c2) to develop rtu--this has been true for some time now. despite the best efforts of volunteers, cc is now too unstable, too unsupported, and too undocumented a piece of software for serious game production.

i see now that this is a bit of a spent discussion, but it may be worthwhile to submit my own recommendation: c2 over cc.
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Post » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:41 pm

My 2 cents: I came here from Multimedia Fusion, taking the risk to port an almost decade long ongoing project (you know, learning by doing) to Construct Classic, and I would never switch back. Dont know if you consider MMF2 a tool for serious game production, but it was these core problems of the authoring tool that would put me in a dead end, and for all the years that stuff like this is out there, including Klik And Play and The Games Factory, you can end up pretty much screwed if you dont work around all these quirks that you are presented along the way to your finished product, saying that Clickteam has done a rather poor job sorting out these teething troubles. I mean, cannot distribute custom private variables to objects, what the hell?
Then the awful performance of the hardware renderer, don`t know if they sorted this out yet, but seriously couldnt care less anymore.
Bottom line is that yes, CC may be stopped in its tracks, but the developers are not. My impression is that, given the circumstance that you know what you are doing (and you kind of have to if you want to have some classy output with either tool), you can still get there.

I managed to pull of awesome stuff like full featured bumpmapped lighting with lights as much as your GPU can handle, you just have to sit down, take a breath, take a look at your options and then pull it off. Where else, besides some framework like Unity, does this NOT happen?
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