Clickteam fusion 2.5 vs Construct 2

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:09 am

@lcizzle, I wouldn't say that.

Fusion has less exports. If you're focusing on PC and Mobile only, Fusion is okay, but it doesn't seem to have any console support yet. As has been said before, projects won't be easy to move to the version.

C2 Supports two of three main consoles so far.

Game Maker, if you can afford it, is comparable to C2 as far as it's usefulness because it has a couple more than C2 and is native.

As far as what someone can make in them, they're all equal, and the games made in them aren't good evidence of that. None of them are actually any better for development. They all have their strengths. Obviously most people here prefer C2, or we wouldn't be here, but realistically no one engine is better than another.

This isn't like 3D engines when pretty much anyone can easily learn to make games in UE4, where as Unity requires programming experience and takes a long time to learn to make anything worth noticing.
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:58 am

I can agree 50% with @lcizzle and 50% with @KTML5.
Both offer valid points.
On one hand some tools offer more benefits than others
in terms of editing and exporting features, plugins, etc.
On the other hand, there are some people who will build
a wall with a spoon. Okay, not with a spoon but you get the idea.

As a proper example, there was once a game made with Klik'n Play
(the oldest and more limited game creator ever although the easiest to use)
called Destruction Carnival. It's still one of the greatest indie games I have
ever played... to this day. So my clicheed feeling is that it's not the tools. It's
what you do with it.

I worked for Clickteam for a long time and developed around 10 or 12
extensions/plugins for them. Most of the database extensions are made
by me BTW. Jeff, Yves and Francois are very passionate about what they
do and caring about their users. The same can be said about Ashley and Tom.

Both have passionate communities and this can be major point in
a software's success or failure. I feel honored to be part of both sides.

Regards,

Andre (byo)
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:02 am

Fusion has as many exports if not more than C2. It has an HTML5 export and you can plop that into XDK and export it out to all the same stuff C2 can export to. A 3rd party on the forums also made a native stack that you can license that exports your game out to native code on various platforms including consoles, all of them.

GameMaker just had a humble bundle for about 2 weeks. You could have gotten Professional + 4 exports for $12? If game making is just a hobby for you then just sit around and camp out the sales. $799 for the full collection is pretty cheap if you intend on making a living from it.

I hope you understand that most 2D engines are actually 3D engines. GPUs aren't made to accelerate 2D. Most 2D game engines are just 3D engines pushing textures around on quads.

"This isn't like 3D engines when pretty much anyone can easily learn to make games in UE4, where as Unity requires programming experience and takes a long time to learn to make anything worth noticing. "

Defeatist attitude. If your thought process is like that then no tool can help you. For half the price paid for C2 personal you can grab Unity for free + PlayMaker or FlowCavans and not have to touch any code at all and just visual script to your hearts delight. The answers are there, you just have to look.
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:17 am

@lcizzle, there's really no reason to be rude. You don't have to agree.

I'd just like to point out that a lot of what you just said is completely wrong. Especially about 2D engines also being 3D. In order to be 3D it needs to have a third dimension, which GameMaker, Fusion, and Construct 2 do not have.

Insulting people who don't have 800$ laying around is not only unprofessional, but incredibly rude, regardless of the topic. There's a reason Construct 2 is only 100$, UE4 is completely free, and Unity made a free version. It's because some people just don't have the money.

Also, https://www.unrealengine.com/news/unreal-engine-4-wins-develop-industry-excellence-award-for-best-engine

Let's agree to disagree. At least without resorting to insults.

But uhm... where did you ever get the idea that 2D graphics aren't hardware accelerated? I've programmed both 2D and 3D graphics before with C++ and HTML5, and have never heard of that. Even by trying to Google it, I can't seem to find anything about that. I can find plenty on how OpenGL and DirectX use hardware acceleration to run 2D and 3D graphics, but not much about 2D not being supported.
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:35 am

@byondisof, you got it! Pretty much, as far as I see it, which one you choose is just about which one you feel most comfortable with.
As long as it can make what you're going for, that's all that matters. I like to flip between engines and tools when designing games.
For instance, I'd like to use Unreal Engine 3 for a Rogue-like platformer if I become a full time dev, because I have a lot of experience with it and it performs extremely well. I personally believe it holds it's own against Unity as far as scalability and I've used Unreal Script since I started high school so I know it pretty well.

I've found that GameMaker has A LOT of great games made in it, but if you've used that for as long as I have you won't be surprised. Most of the developers who've made amazing games with it came from the days of what is now the sandbox... I love that place... Apparently it was taken down though, so it's only accessible with the Way Back Machine :'( https://web.archive.org/web/20160311235 ... games.com/
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:53 am

ayee.....

Um, no one was being rude. If criticism and disagreeing with you is being rude then, guilty? Here we go again though having a perfectly good thread locked because someone can't handle another person not agreeing with them.

I do have a question, is English your native language? Because you are putting slight twists to my words that totally change what I said. "Not supported" I never said that but as far as a GPU goes they are made to accelerate 3D, sure they support some acceleration in 2D to speed up drawing of Windows UI, GDI, and other non gaming garbage but they are made to accelerate 3D. We aren't tossing images into memory pages and flipping buffers an doing stuff like the old DirectDraw days.

A current gen, basic 2D engine is going to setup a 3D scene with a orthographic camera and draw quads (2 triangles) with textures on them. Every graphics card does that really well and very fast.

"I'd just like to point out that a lot of what you just said is completely wrong. Especially about 2D engines also being 3D. In order to be 3D it needs to have a third dimension, which GameMaker, Fusion, and Construct 2 do not have."

I don't really know what to say here except you're wrong.

I didn't insult anyone for not paying $800, I even said you could have gotten all that 2 weeks ago for much less in the humble bundle did I not?

Construct 2 uses it. Browse c2runtime.js.

Example

function GLWrap_(gl, isMobile, enableFrontToBack)
{
this.isIE = /msie/i.test(navigator.userAgent) || /trident/i.test(navigator.userAgent);
this.width = 0; // not yet known, wait for call to setSize()
this.height = 0;
this.enableFrontToBack = !!enableFrontToBack;
this.isEarlyZPass = false;
this.isBatchInEarlyZPass = false;
this.currentZ = 0;
this.zNear = 1;
this.zFar = 1000;
this.zIncrement = ((this.zFar - this.zNear) / 32768);
this.zA = this.zFar / (this.zFar - this.zNear);
this.zB = this.zFar * this.zNear / (this.zNear - this.zFar);
this.kzA = 65536 * this.zA;
this.kzB = 65536 * this.zB;
this.cam = vec3.create([0, 0, 100]); // camera position
this.look = vec3.create([0, 0, 0]); // lookat position
this.up = vec3.create([0, 1, 0]); // up vector
this.worldScale = vec3.create([1, 1, 1]); // world scaling factor
this.enable_mipmaps = true;
this.matP = mat4.create(); // perspective matrix
this.matMV = mat4.create(); // model view matrix
this.lastMV = mat4.create();
this.currentMV = mat4.create();
this.c = gl;
this.initState();
};

Setting up the camera and other webgl settings. GameMaker supports 3D directly. There's a whole section in the docs about extending it to setup a 3D camera instead of the default orthographic 2D camera and scene and many games have used it to full effect.

If I came off rude I didn't mean to, there is just so much misinformation in this thread.
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:44 am

@lcizzle, That's quite interesting, I had no idea that C2 worked that way. And I guess as far as GameMaker goes I wouldn't have known because there's no visible code for how the 2D things work. So I guess that they both could have better 3D support down the line, which is pretty cool. But neither support 3D very well as it stands, so I still wouldn't call them 3D engines.

Though, saying "If game making is just a hobby for you then just sit around and camp out the sales. $799 for the full collection is pretty cheap if you intend on making a living from it." Is blatantly saying that someone who can't afford to spend the money on it doesn't intend on making a living from it, and that it's "Just a hobby". So, that WAS quite rude, and quite unnecessary.

"Defeatist attitude. If your thought process is like that then no tool can help you. For half the price paid for C2 personal you can grab Unity for free + PlayMaker or FlowCavans and not have to touch any code at all and just visual script to your hearts delight. The answers are there, you just have to look." The first sentence here was quite rude. You seem to assume that I don't think I could be successful with Unity, which just isn't true. I was just saying that I don't think Unity is worth the time and effort, because UE4 is just as (maybe more) capable as Unity, it's free, and easy as hell to use.

Whether you agree with me means nothing to me, but that was rude. I don't care about you opinion on any of this, there's no reason to undermine someone just because you don't agree with them. THAT is what gets threads locked.

I'll trust you when you say you didn't mean to though. I understand though, it doesn't matter whether you're native or not, all people think differently, and sometimes things that were meant to be innocent will come off as rude, it's completely natural.

Obviously a bit of what I was saying was misinformation, but the main point I was trying to make is what I believe is important, and I hope that that is what people notice, rather than my misinformed understanding of how some of the engines are made.
Last edited by KTML5 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:52 am

@lcizzle, Anyways, I'd like to get back on topic here for a minute and challenge what you said originally. I honestly don't think that comparing an engine with another by the games made in them is a good idea.

I mean, we all know there's a LOT of great games made in GameMaker. Most people, even though C2 is rated best anywhere I've seen it, still go to GameMaker or Unity when making games and seem to completely ignore C2. And I feel like it's the mindset of people checking the games made in the engine first that makes this happen, before they even research what the engine is actually capable of.

It's not really fair to compare it this way because GameMaker and it's community is much older and bigger than Construct's. This kind of mindset is destructive for Construct and it's users, because we all rely on Scirra being successful.
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Post » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:07 am

Don't make it personal folks. Locking, start a new thread and be polite if you want to keep discussing.
Scirra Founder
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