Concerns from a "Serious" developer

Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:34 pm

I'm not so sure Fraktal, now that Scirra has adopted a subscription model it's vital that the tool evolves with the developer. A one-off-payment model thrives on the new customer, which for C2 would be novice game developers. C3 is entirely about retention, and because of this needs features that make experienced users stay; they're simply worth more money.

Colludium wrote:c3 is an editor that is aimed only at game editor devs.


This is a great quote and I think sums up C3 perfectly - the crux of the community divide stems from the perceived lack of progress between 2 and 3.

It's a fantastic piece of kit and I'm happy with it, but I'm more excited for the real features to come in. For the last 2 years Scirra have been focused on building an editor for a new platform - the web.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm looking forward to what they can accomplish focusing on the game aspect of a game IDE.
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Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:48 pm

FraktalZero wrote:At the end of the day, working with an easier game engine made me waste more time. I came to realize that having a better notion of coding and also using better tools was the solution.

That's my humble two cents


This is my conclusion as well. Once I am done with my current project, apart from maybe a quick prototype, I am not investing more time into using Construct. I learned a lot, definitely got my money's worth out of the purchase (not in actual money but you get the idea). It was not a complete waste of time definitely, but it was a detour so to speak. What Jayjay and the others wrote is not very encouraging if one has ambitions beyond the web for a construct-based project.

We will see where C3 heads off to, but my general feeling is it only has a future as an educational product.
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Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:39 pm

newt wrote:A more proactive approach might be to start challenging the consoles to add html5 support.
That might work, if it's done as a community.


The HTML5 game developer community doesn't represent enough dollars to invest in html5 as a main development platform for consoles when compared to other game development tools based on more console-friendly tech. Not just C2's community - the entire community developing games on HTML5. Considering the market for console games and what's expected out of a console game, HTML5 as a platform just doesn't have the maturity.

That said, I'm with @NotionGames on this one.
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Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:20 pm

@NotionGames you're absolutely spot on. If Scirra addressed all of your concerns we'd all be in a better place, them included. It is very obvious that C3 is a passion project for the devs, it does not resemble what the community wants or needs. Their stubbornness is about to cost them a lot of customers as I think in this case they've really backed the wrong horse. I've lost a lot of faith in them as a company as they are either too stubborn or are actually out of touch with what we need. We get things like changes to the image editor, which is a total waste of time really when other very important things are neglected. C3 now has an identity crisis, is it for professionals or is it for amateurs? It is currently alienating both. Ash and Tom, you are great guys and I love your product and community - these aren't personal attacks, it's tough love. Please start listening to us. Since you've built up a big community if you want to keep it you should be listening rather than dictating. Conduct polls, ask us questions etc. Don't just rely on feedback from those who complain the loudest on the forums, actually ask the wider community.
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Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:31 pm

There's no such thing as console friendly tech, it's either made to run on proprietary software, and hardware or not.
It's like that for each console.
Each requiring licensing to develop for the platform as well as having to pass rigorous quality control just to publish.

However, they all have a browser that supposedly runs on an open standard.
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Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:32 pm

I agree with everything said for the most part, but I also want to mention that Construct2 is the only tool I've used where I've managed to actually finish a game. I've used countless other engines,editors,libraries, etc and never finished anything with those. Although to be honest, perhaps that is part due to being younger then as well as other influences getting in the way. Anyways- Construct is a tool that I feel allows me to get closer to my goals, compared to other options.
Now that said, I do feel concerned about how I would expand my goals. The reasons for those concerns are already mentioned by others in this thread. If things don't improve then I'll be forced to look at other tools that may be progressing closer inline with my goals.
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Post » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:54 pm

Like said before, there's no console friendly tech. Every engine needs to be adaptable to every console and just to release a game on console is a long pain in the ass for devs.
Cant say for 2D development but for 3D I often saw this as a norm.

I think most people are scared of programming hence they choose simpler engines. Heck, I did it for same reasons yet I had some C++ background. But in the end it caused me more troubles than anything. Things that can be done faster in other engines were taking me weeks.
And lets not forget the past issues with NW which were horrible.

Every Time there was something. Even now I face issues that seem to be bugs in C2 editor. And so many features that are currently available on other engines but will probably be never done for Construct.

So in the end I prefer having to transfer everything to a new engine rather than continue this horrible and slow progression.

Construct is made for simpler projects, but whenever you start adding complexity it falls down.
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Post » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:03 am

newt wrote:There's no such thing as console friendly tech, it's either made to run on proprietary software, and hardware or not.
It's like that for each console.
Each requiring licensing to develop for the platform as well as having to pass rigorous quality control just to publish.

However, they all have a browser that supposedly runs on an open standard.


To me console friendly tech means an engine that is capable of running on a console (and at full performance capability of the console). If someone makes a game in Unity for desktop and it gets popular, they can port it to console when they have the funds and/or the interest from Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo.

But that just doesn't happen for Construct 2/3, HTML5 support is barely functional when it is available (with lots of issues in audio, input, framerate, WebGL, etc.) and currently only on about 2 current-gen and one past-gen console (Xbox One, *maybe* PS4, and the Wii U *barely*), so all that work you put into making your game is wasted because you'll be making it all-over-again in another engine.

That's the issue that every big Construct 2 game has faced, and it will definitely continue until the web browser stops being seen as a bonus feature on consoles (let alone as a security issue eg: browser exploits, DRM / anti-piracy woes of an open interpreted format), which is unlikely to happen any time soon/in the next generation or two of consoles anyway.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:12 am

Jayjay wrote:
That's the issue that every big Construct 2 game has faced, and it will definitely continue until the web browser stops being seen as a bonus feature on consoles (let alone as a security issue eg: browser exploits, DRM / anti-piracy woes of an open interpreted format), which is unlikely to happen any time soon/in the next generation or two of consoles anyway.



And that's a shame because it's true. EVERY SINGLE big Construct 2 game has indeed gone through this.

For people who think that the "serious" dev don't make up much of the community... ask yourself why? How could you build up a serious dev portion of the community when they are missing key features that we are looking for? I'm sure there will always be a bigger hobbyist portion of the community but why hold back the potential? I started off as a hobbyist as I'm sure every serious dev does.

What makes Construct appealing is the event system. Not HTML5, not having to use wrappers for virtually every platform.

Insanity's Blade, Super Ubie Island Remix, AirScape, Last Penelope, Sombrero, etc. are great examples of the potential of the engine. We know Construct can make good games... We just need a way for people to experience them! I seriously can't figure out why this is still an issue... Heck, even Konjak (creator of Noitu Love and Iconoclasts) jumped shipped and he was the reason why I looked into Construct in the first place.

Serious developers really help the brand and generate awareness. Take care of us too.

It would be different if no one were complaining about this over the years... But we as a community have. And now with the subscription model, I'm going for sure expect more out of the engine to warrant constantly paying for it. Will we ever get what we've been asking for?
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Post » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:33 am

Change engine, use Playmaker or whatever. Or code. The event system fails at some point as a realized when going into a too complex project with lots of animations.
Takes more events to do the same that can be done more easily in Unity par exemple.
Some features I've asked several times and it felt on deaf ears. So I doubt there will be any change because the amount of work to make it work for consoles might not be worth anything for them unless games made with it start becoming indeed much more popular.
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