Concerns from a "Serious" developer

Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:57 pm

tunepunk wrote:@lamar

I didn't ask for that specifically, because I didn't even know it was possible, or that they even had that plan in mind. But since I've tried the beta, i'm quite optimistic.... It looks great, feels great, and I can even make games on my phone while having a dump. :lol:

I can just speak for myself. The only thing i can remember I requested was 3D support, and not having to rely on 3rd party build options for mobile. Apparently they provided 50% of my needs so far, and they have no interest whatsoever adding 3D support.... but I'm not complaining. That it's browser based is just a bonus for me. I find it pretty cool.... Unusual, but I kind of like it.... so far.... I will still be using C2 for my main project, but will be playing with C3 as I go.

Subscription model or not... I could care less. Game development is still pretty cheap hobby of mine. I have several subscriptions running just to make my project a reality. Photoshop, Autodesk Sketchbook, Maya... hell ... even my gym card costs 250Euro for 6 month membership, and I don't even like going there, but I still pay for it, because it's good for me. >_< ... LOL

I'm not speaking for everyone, ONLY myself. As everyone has their own needs and request, but I put my trust in that they know what they are doing, and so far I'm still optimistic, especially if I will see my favorite plugins ported to C3.

I just feel there's way too much negativity before we even got our hands on the complete product.... even when first stable is released, it's still gonna have some problems, or lacking some features until the product matures. I think we would have to deal with that even if they went for a pure desktop version.



OK, but nowhere have I (or anyone I have read) suggested Scirra not go ahead with their C3 project.

I have suggested a compromise so C2 users that do not have your kind of money to waste on a subscription will stay with C2 and that would help you and all of us and Scirra still makes money to support their projects.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:18 pm

@lamar
Thndr wrote:1) You feel you were advertised the exporters instead of support of being able to publish to the platforms for Construct 2.

Just because it was advertised that it would work with the platform*(with third party exporters) doesn't mean they have to fully 100% support and make sure each platform's exporter works flawlessly with all features provided by Construct.

In fact Scirra has worked together with many of the wrapper projects to improve the project so Construct games can work even better in the environment but for each console the wrapper devs have to recreate the wheel and that needs a lot of time/skill/money. (Which is why it's good MS is doing their Xbox browser support stuff)

People didn't dev for Linux and Mac due to lack of support and we'd have a more stagnant dev environment if not for Valve and other companies throwing their weight into OpenGL/Vulkan to destroy the reliance on DirectX, but with consoles instead of just 1 environment (Linux/Unix-likes) you get multiple proprietary environments with not as wide of range of operating system/coding environment support.

I bet Scirra probably has some interesting stories trying to work with Nintendo if they were not under a NDA.

---

Now I do agree that there was a lack of support in regards to the exporters in terms of documentation that lead to additional confusions, as well as hopes that the parties making the wrappers would improve them more than they were.

As we see with Construct 3's cloud based service they're obviously getting an automated flow working to compile them for mobile, but I doubt the majority of the technology involved is Scirra proprietary. This means that it's possible for them to document majority of the process and then share with everyone so people can follow the steps and go through the process with their exported project.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:22 pm

@Elliott
Somehow I get what you say. I also use Google Docs and is very useful, but I also can open my documents with MS Office, Open Office, LibreOffice ... etc in case I need to.
Yes, there are a lot of advantages like the ones you mentioned, but with Construct games, you are tied/dependent to Construct/Scirra.

Actually, @tunepunk has a point: Business 101 is to make money so ... yeah subscriptions :twisted:

But also I feel the same as you, @lamar: NW.js exporter in Construct 2 works offline. The same could be done with C3. And to support the developers, you bought the wrapper for the platform you wanted.

I already jumped the ship to Fusion and already gained more then I payed for Construct 2, so I'm ok, just curious how this will turn out.
If the browser IDE will prove itself, the other engines will do the same when the support will be better, so no loss for them, they will have native IDE + browser IDE, like things are now with Construct having only-HTML5 and the other engines have native and HTML5.

Anyway, I give my regards to @Ashley , @Tom (and Scirra team) for Construct 3. It really is an accomplishment, but in process you've lost a great part of the community (if not for the browser IDE, then for the subscription model).
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:26 pm

Thndr wrote:@lamar
Thndr wrote:1) You feel you were advertised the exporters instead of support of being able to publish to the platforms for Construct 2.

Just because it was advertised that it would work with the platform*(with third party exporters) doesn't mean they have to fully 100% support and make sure each platform's exporter works flawlessly with all features provided by Construct.

In fact Scirra has worked together with many of the wrapper projects to improve the project so Construct games can work even better in the environment but for each console the wrapper devs have to recreate the wheel and that needs a lot of time/skill/money. (Which is why it's good MS is doing their Xbox browser support stuff)

People didn't dev for Linux and Mac due to lack of support and we'd have a more stagnant dev environment if not for Valve and other companies throwing their weight into OpenGL/Vulkan to destroy the reliance on DirectX, but with consoles instead of just 1 environment (Linux/Unix-likes) you get multiple proprietary environments with not as wide of range of operating system/coding environment support.

I bet Scirra probably has some interesting stories trying to work with Nintendo if they were not under a NDA.

---

Now I do agree that there was a lack of support in regards to the exporters in terms of documentation that lead to additional confusions, as well as hopes that the parties making the wrappers would improve them more than they were.

As we see with Construct 3's cloud based service they're obviously getting an automated flow working to compile them for mobile, but I doubt the majority of the technology involved is Scirra proprietary. This means that it's possible for them to document majority of the process and then share with everyone so people can follow the steps and go through the process with their exported project.


You quote yourself and then point me at your quote lol!

Come on man and let's cut through the bullshit. Scirra could make those exporters and features available as a C2 update or addon and you guys know that.

They are doing it for one reason only because they don't want to give up exporters for a single payment if they can force us or tie us into a long term subscription.

Tom admitted that right here:

Tom wrote:Addon package is an interesting idea but it's not on the road-map for now. The export to mobile options we're building for C3 rely on external servers which have cost to keep running so any addon would have to be subscription based.


So please stop claiming you can't do it for blah and blah reason or that they did not lead us all on with advertising that included those exporters would be in C2 because that makes me think you think I and everyone else is stupid.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:26 pm

The amount of angst is quite noticeable, and I'm sure they will pay attention to it, but the direction they've chosen, while somewhat niche, is more than sustainable.
It's not about what it can't do, it's about what it does do, and they've overcome one roadblock to getting the billions of people on the internet to try it with a single button.
The things they have to worry about now are the worth, and the retention.
To be honest I'm not seeing the value yet, but it's very early still.

Once its established, and running well, then you can start asking for things, that's where the retention comes in.
Asking for things that are exceptionally convoluted now is just pointless.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:30 pm

Unfortunately the debates are unfruitful. Whatever side of the fence you're on, vote with your wallet.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:35 pm

I still think it's hilarious that I can't log in to the browser app. Always says unable to yada yada. I even cleared my cache several times since day 1, created a new password on the forum to use, and it still won't let me log in. "Serious" developers want to log in, amirite?
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:35 pm

All I'm going to say is yes construct has a workflow that I and many others love. I posted this thread to show that you can make great content. But the biggest concern for those of us who do complete a project is "what now?"

Can you put it on Android? iOS? Steam? Consoles? The short answer is yes. But we now know it's way too reliant on other services and support. So regardless of how great it is to work in Construct, you have to wonder if it's worth it in the end when there are now various documented cases where a project is completed and the devs are left frustrated to the point of porting through other engines.

We all want to see Construct succeed but we'd like to be able to succeed as well.

Each person has their reasons for being here. I'm simply sharing my story.
And if i didn't care, i wouldn't have said anything and just moved on
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:50 pm

Bleenx wrote:I still think it's hilarious that I can't log in to the browser app. Always says unable to yada yada. I even cleared my cache several times since day 1, created a new password on the forum to use, and it still won't let me log in. "Serious" developers want to log in, amirite?


Not aware of any issues here, submit a bug report if you're having trouble.

Benefit of logging in via editor is it can unlock all your features if you're a licensed customer without having to fiddle with c2license.txt files. >50% of our support emails are spent with issues on the license file itself which we're hoping to significantly reduce by making the whole process easier.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:53 pm

NotionGames wrote:All I'm going to say is yes construct has a workflow that I and many others love. I posted this thread to show that you can make great content. But the biggest concern for those of us who do complete a project is "what now?"

Can you put it on Android? iOS? Steam? Consoles? The short answer is yes. But we now know it's way too reliant on other services and support. So regardless of how great it is to work in Construct, you have to wonder if it's worth it in the end when there are now various documented cases where a project is completed and the devs are left frustrated to the point of porting through other engines.

We all want to see Construct succeed but we'd like to be able to succeed as well.

Each person has their reasons for being here. I'm simply sharing my story.
And if i didn't care, i wouldn't have said anything and just moved on


Thank you for sharing your story, we have all read it and we appreciate you taking the time out to post it.
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