Concerns from a "Serious" developer

Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:50 pm

Tom wrote:Which threads were unjustly locked that you are referring to?


Good point, I unfairly lumped locked and closed together in one there.

I am more so concerned about closed bugs (which I mistakenly believed were locked) which were closed simply for not fitting within the tight guidelines on bug submissions.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (they wont run anywhere)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:51 pm

Jayjay wrote:
Tom wrote:Which threads were unjustly locked that you are referring to?


Good point, I unfairly lumped locked and closed together in one there.

I am more so concerned about closed bugs (which I mistakenly believed were locked) which were closed simply for not fitting within the tight guidelines on bug submissions.


How would you like us to deal with bug reports that don't meet the minimum requirements to investigate? Do you have a link to some of them that concern you?
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:58 pm

I like the reply (/replies) from Ashley.
From here on I think it is better that if there are any other concerns, to do as Ashley is suggesting and make a seperate topic and stop replying in this one developer's (interesting to read) opinion-thread.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:00 pm

While @Tom and @Ashley is active. A quick question you might have missed in this fast feed. If we are subscribing to C3, is there any technical limitation stopping us from using the C3 build service for games exported in C2? This would be great as a transition since it will take some time for plugin makers to port plugins we are depending on.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:04 pm

@Ashley

I'm happy to manage spritesheet images myself and all of the memory issues that may arise from it if it means no seams, which I emailed you about a couple months ago, and I ended up implementing image loading myself separate from C2's spritesheeting with no issues and lower memory requirements than I had before, though I think what you're suggesting with image limits on desktop PCs is not, generally, an issue in most desktop games. The best solution (from a dev perspective) is to allow users to create their own spritesheets, even if they have some position/rotation/scale/limitations to work properly with Construct. Put simply, other software does spritesheets better, and it'd be nice to be able to update a single spritesheet that can keep collision shapes instead of having to re-import a spritesheet, have C2 split it up, and then have to redefine proper collision for each sprite. Even though C2 supposedly creates "optimized" spritesheets, I haven't found that to be the case and to shrink file size, I tend to find myself running all exported PNGs through PNGGaunlet which can reduce the size even further, with some images compressing another 90%. Yes, I know this doesn't affect memory usage, but it is a missing optimization for size on disk and it can be a bit of a pain to have to do it after every export because C2 may create differently-organized spritesheets if any images have changed due to re-import or additional spritesheet images being generated if more content is added.

As for working exports: we're not really presented with much info on export, and I've had issues where one export works and another done minutes later (for testing) fails on startup (red loading bar, for example) doesn't work, even though I may not have made a single change in either C2 or to whatever nw.js version I'm exporting to. Believe me, if I could figure out a way to more clearly report that issue, I would do so in a second.

Also, while it's good you won't defend a 4yr-old blog post that isn't accurate, it'd be even better if you walked back claims that WebGL performance is equal to that of OpenGL/DirectX, because at just the base level of that claim, the idea that a graphics functionality wrapper on top of another graphics wrapper is as fast as a single graphics wrapper is...well, it's just silly.
Last edited by digitalsoapbox on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:06 pm

Ashley wrote:
A page with Scirra tested benchmarks for each platform(PC/Mac/Linux with PC specs, Android/iOS with model, wrapper vs browser) with a Construct 2/3 version of the exported test file would work wonders in giving people an idea of how relative their current devices are to the test devices.

We already ship some in Construct 3, in the tech demos section.

I meant more of a page outside of the program that lists the benchmarks done on Scirra owned testing platforms along with the platform technical details to set expectation levels.

I've been playing around with it little myself and I like your recent blogpost where you can link to them directly.
Last edited by Thndr on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:08 pm

@zebbi
Pretty much constant 60fps vs about 45fps. I benchmarked my old system and new system with this:
http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm
and found that:
95% of systems are faster than my old system and
75% are faster than my new one.

@jayjay
Windows version is only relevant for the nwjs export since they're dropping support for xp and vista as I recall. Also I'm fairly certain only one core is utilized by Construct's runtime, with maybe the exception of webworkers used for pathfinding and perhaps some other things.

Sorry I think I'm off topic from the rest of the topic.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 pm

Jayjay wrote:Also, Unity does have different eventing types: plyGame is quite a bit like event sheets, but there's also PlayMaker and a few other visual scripting tools available for it. It's probably just a matter of time before "I stay with C2 for the event sheet" becomes "I switched to Unity for the event sheet" and it'd be a massive shame if that wasn't an event sheet plugin made by Scirra.



After asking for a roadmap past C3 (and not really getting an answer), I downloaded Unity and bought Playmaker. While it is different, it isn't as hard as you think and there are tons of tutorials.

In the end you have to use the tools that will get the job done. If you don't want an HTML5 workflow, choose another tool. Waiting for your favorite tool to finally do what you want (via feature requests) may take years. In that time, you can learn a tool that you know will do what you want AND deliver your product on the platforms you need.

I was a heavy discreet combustion user who was very reluctant to learn anything else. Now I use AE and I'm glad I do.

I'll keep using C2 for simple 2D HTML5 games, and probably Unity for everything else.
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:20 pm

Tom wrote:How would you like us to deal with bug reports that don't meet the minimum requirements to investigate? Do you have a link to some of them that concern you?


Ideally I'd like for Scirra to try recreating the described situation, work with the paying customers to reproduce what it is they assume they are trying to do, and spread knowledge about how to do that properly, rather than closing as won't fix.

For example, here's some in the past 6 months:

Graphical issues NW.js: Closed for using a third-party addon and not being "minimal" (how do you do that when you have a full sized game and might not know if it's merely a size-of-the-game issue?)

graphical-issues-when-exporting-to-nw-js_p1084973?#p1084973

Platform jump height variation: Closed as won't fix (so no pixel perfect games allowed eh? too bad Retro is the most common 2D game people like to make)

span-class-posthilit-platform-span-jump-height-variation_p846783?#p846783

Issue with platform behavior: Closed as won't fix (A jump command should be received that tells the platformer to only check for being on ground once the velocity Y is below 0 again)

issue-with-span-class-posthilit-platform-span-behavior_p1088405?#p1088405

Pin behavior position lag: Closed as can't fix (why not give the user some means of control over the order in which behaviors will be executed?)

pin-behavior-position-span-class-posthilit-lag-span_p572492?#p572492

Choppy/Jerky Frame Skips: Closed as another Google issue / "can't fix" (Great, says every customer expecting decent mobile export)

choppy-jerky-frame-skips-on-android_t186905


Also @R0J0hound I think it's safe to say that those passmark results are comparing against other users who are into "passmarking"/benchmarking. The Steam HW survey is even slightly biased as it is probably has more gamers who play 3D games than 2D.

For a strictly-2D sense, the average hardware we're seeing does dip down into Windows XP and Vista users, and they do still get very vocal when our game doesn't work (and we told them in requirements that it wouldn't, not even marketing to them as possible or "functional" on their OS !).
Last edited by Jayjay on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (they wont run anywhere)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:21 pm

R0J0hound wrote:Windows version is only relevant for the nwjs export since they're dropping support for xp and vista as I recall. Also I'm fairly certain only one core is utilized by Construct's runtime, with maybe the exception of webworkers used for pathfinding and perhaps some other things.

Yeah, nwjs 15 was the last I got to run on xp if I remember right.

Also, I do remember bug reports being a major hassle. Spend hours trying to isolate an issue from a larger project and risk getting met with a dismissive response. That's disheartening so I rarely bother with them.
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