Construct 2 - 3D Version - KICKSTARTER Campaign

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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:23 pm

Ashley has already stated multiple times that this won't be done by Scirra anytime soon (construct 5 maybe?). Even construct 3 (which is not even official AFAIK) is all but confirmed to not have support for 3D directly.

If you want to do this by yourself, though:
  • It's a ton of work. 3D is hard. Good 3d is even harder, since you'd have to do a ton of catching up.
  • There are very established players on the market already, who charge very little and offer extremely capable engines
  • There are plugins for those engines that make coding easier or unnecessary
  • There is no proof that there exists enough demand to justify building this product
  • Backers are already weary of "game development engines with no programming required" kickstarters. Most of them failed or delivered underwhelming products.

I'm not saying it's impossible (it's not), but there are many hidden gotchas. You really, really need to think this through.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:39 pm

@Fimbul Don't forget I'm talking about a separate program developed by separate programmers. Ashley does not have to do it and I never said that he should.

If you all read through "the entire post", you all would realize that.

Look at companies like Adobe and Autodesk - separate programmers for various applications - but they're all under the same company name.

I don't need to worry about "thinking this through" when we're talking about a separate program here.

I'm not talking about trying to integrate 3D into the existing Construct 2.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:49 pm

I am actually working in 3d most of the time even though C2 is 2d. I'm using Modo and Zbrush to create my characters and assets. I use Photoshop for HUD elements or other effects.

The benefit to a 2d engine is that there is no polygon limit since it is image based. I can create a character with a ton of polygons and simply export it as a png. So, there's really no difference in a character with 3,000 or 300,000 polygons or hair effects or whatever other fancy stuff I use.

I'm working on an isometric game like Baldur's Gate or Diablo. For the most part, I've been able to do everything I want in 2d, but I have to make do without lighting effects of any kind. I know that C2 was updated with a lighting module or something, but that won't work in 2d because nothing is actually solid. An isometric 2d cube is completely flat, so it's essentially an optical illusion, and therefore it cannot have real time shadows on it.

Since my game is, turn-based RPG, I honestly would have probably killed myself trying this in another program. C2 allows me to quickly change events or move them around, and in a game like this, I need to modify and experiment quite a bit.

3d would have opened my game up a bit so I could have had multiple levels in isometric perspective, such as a stairway to a second floor or platform elements. However, this is not absolutely necessary. It'd be more like an added bonus.

I would welcome 3d, but I'd have to see the pros and cons first.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:51 pm

Perhaps this should be in open topics then?
I already asked for a "wishful thinking" forum, and was snubbed.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:58 pm

DrewMelton wrote:I am actually working in 3d most of the time even though C2 is 2d. I'm using Modo and Zbrush to create my characters and assets. I use Photoshop for HUD elements or other effects.

The benefit to a 2d engine is that there is no polygon limit since it is image based. I can create a character with a ton of polygons and simply export it as a png. So, there's really no difference in a character with 3,000 or 300,000 polygons or hair effects or whatever other fancy stuff I use.

I'm working on an isometric game like Baldur's Gate or Diablo. For the most part, I've been able to do everything I want in 2d, but I have to make do without lighting effects of any kind. I know that C2 was updated with a lighting module or something, but that won't work in 2d because nothing is actually solid. An isometric 2d cube is completely flat, so it's essentially an optical illusion, and therefore it cannot have real time shadows on it.

Since my game is, turn-based RPG, I honestly would have probably killed myself trying this in another program. C2 allows me to quickly change events or move them around, and in a game like this, I need to modify and experiment quite a bit.

3d would have opened my game up a bit so I could have had multiple levels in isometric perspective, such as a stairway to a second floor or platform elements. However, this is not absolutely necessary. It'd be more like an added bonus.

I would welcome 3d, but I'd have to see the pros and cons first.


@DrewMelton A separate 3D program with the ease of Construct 2 would be awesome for the kind of project that you're doing. I don't know how to do "isometric" in Construct 2 - so my game is a straight top-down view of the characters and environments.

Would you happen to have a demo of the game so I can take a look at it? I don't need the source file. I'm just referring to putting it up in a browser so I can see what it looks like.

On another note ... Zbrush makes me cringe. It's the only 3D program that given me a good a** kicking. I've used Maya, Mudbox, 3DS Max, Lightwave, Cinema 4D with no major problems - but Zbrush? Good Lord !!!
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:18 pm

@newt hmmm ... well that's strange ...

Why would you get snubbed for requesting a "wishful thinking" forum?

That would be a perfect place, high up on the main forums, where people can put their feature requests.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:22 pm

vlweb3d wrote:@DrewMelton A separate 3D program with the ease of Construct 2 would be awesome for the kind of project that you're doing. I don't know how to do "isometric" in Construct 2 - so my game is a straight top-down view of the characters and environments.

Would you happen to have a demo of the game so I can take a look at it? I don't need the source file. I'm just referring to putting it up in a browser so I can see what it looks like.

On another note ... Zbrush makes me cringe. It's the only 3D program that given me a good a** kicking. I've used Maya, Mudbox, 3DS Max, Lightwave, Cinema 4D with no major problems - but Zbrush? Good Lord !!!


Zbrush is a bit quirky. I only use it for a bit of sculpting here and there. I use Modo for just about everything. It even does sculpting itself pretty well.

Anyway, my game is way under construction, so I don't want to release any demos until I get some more done. I'll show off a screenshot of what I have so far.

Keep in mind that the game is not ready to show off, so this will be one of the rare screenshots I actually post of it. When I get my main 3d characters done, I'll probably start an actual thread on it.

This is a rogue-like, so it focuses on randomness and replayability.

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Notes:

1. Please ignore the Golden Axe sprites. I will be replacing them with 3d models soon. I just needed a placeholder while I work on the code.

2. There will be changes. I have a new character creation system that I'm working on, so the stats in the upper left will be replaced.

3. I'm still making gameplay decisions, so remember that nothing is final yet.

4. The game will play like Civilization with its turn-based approach. That's why you see red and green icons here and there.

5. The levels are randomly generated and can be destroyed. Thanks to the updates to the pathfinding regeneration, I can now have the walls be destroyed.

6. The fog of war is currently disabled.

7. I'm hoping for a spring/summer release next year. So, lot's of work to be done! If I didn't work alone, it'd probably go faster but whatever.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:45 pm

@DrewMelton Zbrush being quirky - lol, yes indeed.

Well from what I've seen so far. It looks awesome - even if you're using "Golden Axe" sprites. Would love to see how this would have looked like, in an easy-to-use 3D Game Engine, with your talents.

After you're done with your current game, do you have any plans to put your engine in the Asset Store?

For my next game, I was thinking about a turn-based RPG - but I have no idea where to start with a project of that magnitude.

I was first looking at "RPG Maker", but although its easy to use, its screen resolution is low and you do have limits to your tilesets. That wont be good if i'm planning to sell a high resolution RPG game for PC.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:07 pm

(This is a redux of what I post regularly on this forum on the subject)

I'm not convinced an easy-3D-game-builder product is as realistic as you think, especially if trying to keep Construct 2's philosophy of "not a cookie cutter engine", and mainly trying to provide primitives from which to build a totally custom game from. @Fimbul touched on a few issues but a few others that I think would be an issue:

- 3D math is a significant jump in difficulty over 2D math. Most students touch on sin and cos before leaving school, and they're really handy to know for game design. When it comes to 3D math, how's your knowledge of quaternions and matrices?
- Designing 3D assets is a significant jump in difficulty over 2D assets. Most people can scrawl something in Paint or do some light pixel art, but in comparison how many people are competent at 3D modelling tools? Also a 2D layout editor is nice and easy to use, but custom 3D level design on a 2D screen can be a pain in the ass (at least in my pretty limited experience of designing half life levels way back)
- Competing with the visual quality of the top-end 3D games (think Crysis-grade and newer) is tough, but IMO it's realistic for indie developers to match commercial quality with 2D titles. (See "The Next Penelope"!)

I think a "Construct 3D" is the top example of "imagining feature requests to solve everything magically with no effort". Real-world solutions always have their caveats.
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Post » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:12 pm

@Ashley, Well, if that's how you really feel about it - OK, well fine then.

I think a "Construct 3D" is the top example of "imagining feature requests to solve everything magically with no effort"


and don't try to insult your customers' intelligence by saying that I'm asking for some sort of magic formula!

Even for a game engine with no programming, I still have to create all of the assets and use logic to make those assets work as a cohesive game. In other words ... IT DOES TAKE EFFORT ... no matter how you try to spin it !

But anyway, don't be surprised if a year from now - or even 5 years from now ...
some other programmer (working for a competing company) creates a 3d engine that winds up proving you wrong.

I'm done with the negativity I'm getting here, so I'm not reading any more replies.

Have a good day :roll:
Last edited by vlweb3d on Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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