Construct 2 - Only A Toy?

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:01 pm

"Construct 2 Business license is €329.99. That is not exactly candy money, if you know what I mean. It's lots of money. For that I get an unfinished, unreliable product which causes more work and headache for me than anything."

Probably in comparison with its competitors it is about on par. I don't find it "unreliable" and most of the things I've thought were bugs were errors on my part.

I don't think you know how unreliable development systems are. I used to (professionally) program in a Basic Interpreter that was being developed in parallel. Variables would randomly disappear, GOSUBs didn't etc etc etc. Windows 2.0 development kit was so bad the only way we could figure out how to print was by reverse engineering the baby wordprocessor.

You don't know you are born, child.
My tutorial through development blog is at http://myconstruct2dev.blogspot.co.uk/
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Post » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:37 pm

Mr X wrote:
Until Construct 2 doesn't need these radical changes anymore it can't be considered a professional, reliable and finished product. :|


OP this is their first javascript based engine editor. the last one is construct classic which was built using python so they did a good job so far but yes it is still a work in progress of course good things should be added and certain things should be edited and improved upon but so far with this price (124 to make your first 5,000 which can easily put aside 400$ for the business license.. which is on sale with buying a personal first check it out:

every 1,000.00 in profits you pay

500-700 in rent
200 utils
200-100 saved

in 4,000 you will have enough put away. not bad. sure its not like unity but its much better than unity. you can make anything. more editors would be nice of course or even more polish but its not so bad.
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Post » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:09 pm

I've had lots of problems with the Local Storage, at first it stored a number from another project for some reason. Then it would work but when the game ended, the high score would change to half as it was before, so if it was 1,000, it would turn into 500. Once that was fixed, it wouldn't store the score when i started on another layout. I had to end up just installing an older version.
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Post » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:21 pm

I used GameSalad for a while and then i found out i couldn't even save a number/layout with a PC. Construct 2 is 10 times better and way easier. But you guys should have at least kept the WebStorage option for people who don't publish to or use Google Chrome.
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Post » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:52 pm

@firezombie444
on layout editor/view
right click -> insert new object -> right click on windows "insert new object" -> show deprecated plugins -> select webstorage
instead of using an old version of C2
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Post » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:21 am

@firezombie444 @MadSpy is right you can find webstorage there. Also you can try to change the localstorage key name if you're setting all key names same like "best" or "highscore" it could be the reason why you get another game's scores. ( it happened to me with webstorage lol)

@Mr X make more practice mate, there's lots of people here make really good things with C2.
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Post » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:57 am

Hmmm... Mr X has some goood points. but so does Colludium... I have to say I learned a lot using construct 2 about game making that I never knew before, its very Noob-friendly... and Im happy with my experience so far.... with construct but you never know what may happen in the future
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Post » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:43 am

We go to great lengths to avoid outright breaking people's games. We carefully note any breaking changes we make in the release notes, and try to make as few of them as possible.

The immediate reason Local Storage exists is to support the Chrome Web Store. Google removed support for WebStorage in Chrome Web Store apps, so C2 users had no way to store data there unless we started using a newer and incompatible API. There are several other benefits though, including improved performance and higher storage capacity, outlined in the r202 release notes (where it was first released). There is another reason the change was made: the underlying API the WebStorage plugin uses is widely criticised by web developers for being limited and synchronous (i.e. it will freeze the entire page/game while it works, which makes things incredibly janky if the storage device is slow). Browser makers also don't like it for similar reasons, and is why I think it was removed from the CWS. It's basically seen as a mistake which needs to be replaced by something else and then removed. It is definitely better to move off it while it's still supported. This means nothing is immediately broken, and people have plenty of time to update or decide to stick with WebStorage for the time being. A few years in future it may eventually be removed, and the damage would be significantly reduced by the fact we moved to LocalStorage a few years in advance. On the other hand we could have left WebStorage there, and when it eventually got removed it forces everyone's hand: your game is currently broken, until you move to a new feature, and then there's a big panic and hurry and probably long complaints on the forum about how people's games randomly break. So while the transition to LocalStorage is a little tricky for some since it works slightly differently, I think it's definitely worth doing sooner rather than later. Deprecating WebStorage is a means of discouraging use of it, particularly for new users, and helping them avoid getting caught out by future removal.

tl;dr - we really try to avoid breaking changes, and when we do, it's usually for a good reason, and done to minimise the overall damage in the long term.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:12 pm

C2 is not a Toy, however I often feel straight jacketed. I often feel how C2 was put together was an after thought. I've spent hours digging through C2runtime.js to figure out how things work(and I only know a little bit). I can honestly say that the basic design scope at a root level is not as good as it can be. And the way C2 is designed there is just no way that "Toy" to Tool can be accomplished without breaking huge amounts of work.

Just four examples of design factors that A drive me nuts, and B drive down productivity.
1. World Objects are Plugins. This is wrong in a good design. There should only be 1 WorldObject.
2. World Objects should naturally be scene graphed.
3. Behaviours should be everything. Image drawer, animation controller, TextFonts... so on etc.
4. The SDK is bulky and straight jacketed. It's not really a very stream lined Plugin system. I've never worked with a Plugin system that was so heavy.

Those are HUGE development downers, and they drive me nuts. Because they require MORE work to do in the basics of C2 than say Unity, Anarchy, Unreal, jMonkey..... I can't speak for Styncil, GameSalad.

And then there is the implementations that just don't quit make the par. When I joined C2 collision was ONLY brute force.... huh? really?. Eventually we got collision cells, however there has been and was a call for quadtree collision. But spactial partition tree wasn't developed, it was just a brute force system, but worked in a grid area. There signs of these half measures all over the place.

Of course do your own Plugin/Behaviour. But let's take a look at collision. Let's say I make a Collision system based on QuadTree. Great. However Sprite, Solid... everything already uses the internal Collision system. So I need to turn that off in the options. Ok. So let's add Plaformer. Platformer is creme de la creme of Plugins. However guess what. Platformer can't work with my QuadTree. So now that iv'e turned off internal collision. Platformer is useless. So now I have write an entirely new Platformer behaviour. Now you kind of see where this is going.

If a core feature isn't done efficiently or flexible, then you notice it big time. It starts working against development. Then there is Pin vs a SceneGraph... so on etc. Function isn't part of the core engine, it's also a Plugin... wtf? There are a lot of features that we use, but just feel short of being a full tool.

However even though I have parts that drive me nuts, and I do work with Unity(at work). Most of my personal game projects are still C2. It's faster, there are less errors, the game api is the best I have ever seen(even flawed). It's the cheapest game tool ever for what it provides, and is still fantastic.

My only suggestion would be that for Ashley get the community involved in any new feature. Not just a call for a feature to exist. but a break down on how developers want to interact with the feature. What they want the feature to be flexible enough to do. A well structured feature that has community involvement, rather than the tool developer making the call how it works, and it's limitations.

As for storage. I've said this again and again. Do storage like any professional does it. It's easy, solves problems.
Use Local Storage and a Dictionary
saving data
1. store values in dictionary
2. save dictionary JSON to local storage

loading data
1. load json stored string from local storage
2. put json string into dictionary

using data
store and use data in the dictionary.

this is how professional development uses data. Takes advantage of asynchronous save/load, but the immediate benefit of using data. This isn't rocket science people.
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Post » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:43 pm

Thanks guys for the valuable feedback, both the good and bad. And that you didn't bash my post too hard (I expected worse). :)

For the sake of Construct 2 and us who are learning or working in it, these things needs to be brought up instead of pretending that issues which irritates many of us doesn't exist.

As I also mentioned in another post - this tool (not a toy as you want to call it) is PRIMARILY made so that we all can create games with it. Well, what are the vital things in games? I know one thing - A controller. Now you'll say "but Construct 2 has support for a gamepad (console) and keyboard (PC) and mouse..."

Okay, but if Scirra is serious with its claims that this tool can bring your games to mobiles - where are the mobile controls such as a floating controller (or what you want to call it) on the mobile screen. That's just one more example, I'm sure that there's others. Please feel free to fill in, you guys who've come much farther with your game and might have encountered these issues.

I wanted to like C2.
I wanted to succeed with my game in C2.
I wanted to be able to release my game on mobiles with C2.

None of these are easy to do.

I'll pause here, so some of you may respond if you want - about what Scirra promise us with their product:

"Create Games EASILY. Construct 2 lets YOU make advanced games! Build Once. Publish Everywhere. True multiplatform support. Build your game in Construct 2 and publish it to all these platforms." - Then they list 15 systems.

But also its pricing =VS= my argument about an unfinished tool which annoys some of us due to its several and serious issues mentioned in this thread and more.
Last edited by Mr X on Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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