Construct 2 - platform poll

New releases and general discussions.

Post » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:00 pm

[quote="RaymondHooks":280i4amt]But C# is not a deadend. With xna you can put out games for 360, Zune, Windows, and Windows Phone.[/quote:280i4amt]

True, but I wasn't talking about C# or XNA, but XBLIG specifically. PC's and phones are much more ubiquitous than XBOX, which is the main reason I see them as having priority. Everyone has a computer, so exporting to various OS runtimes should take precedence. And there are a lot more smart-phone owners out there than there are 360 owners, so phone support of some kind would come in second. And don't get me wrong, I think console porting would be a good option, I just don't think the need is anywhere near as big as for OS and phone support.

Also, for every 360 owner that does buy an XBLIG game, there are even more who don't. People generally get a 360 in order to play triple-A titles. Phones, on the other hand, are a different animal entirely. People are more accepting of smaller, simpler games on their phone. Plus the portable nature means more opportunity to buy and play games. People are much more likely to drop $3 on Generic Stick Figure Zombie Arena Shooter on their phone when they can play it on their lunch breaks or on the toilet or whatever, but not so much when you can only play it on your couch on a system that you could be playing Halo: Reach or Red Dead Redemption on instead.

But as far as top priority goes, I still think Mac/Linux support is where it's at. The most common complaint I see from the indie community is "well this game looks neat but it's Windows only so I can't play it *frowny face*." More OS support would be a big draw for indie devs.

[quote="ldmn":280i4amt]-Consoles are so widespread according to some news, it is a broader market possibility![/quote:280i4amt]

I really don't think that's true. If you have a source on this I'd be happy to get schooled though :). And anyway, as time goes on smart phones will become even more prevalent, and console owners still won't be able to carry their consoles around and play them.
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Post » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:47 pm

[quote="deadeye":c06tgrd4]But C# is not a deadend. With xna you can put out games for 360, Zune, Windows, and Windows Phone.

True, but I wasn't talking about C# or XNA, but XBLIG specifically.[/quote:c06tgrd4]

Hmmm, tough to separate them since you can't get on XBLIG without using xna/C#. My point was that using xna doesn't limit you to just XBLIG, since you can make games for Zune, Windows, and Windows Phone aside from 360. Being able to make games for 4 platforms trumps being able to make a game for just one in terms of market reach.

[quote="deadeye":c06tgrd4]Everyone has a computer, so exporting to various OS runtimes should take precedence.[/quote:c06tgrd4]

But some of these OS's are unpopular to the point of making it a complete waste of time. Making an export to be able to run our games on Linux would be a waste of development time. However, making the Construct development software compatible with Linux would be a better idea... thing is, doing that and not making the games run wouldn't make sense.If the amount of time necessary to do that would be the same or greater than making exports so our games can run on game platforms that are far more popular (and make no mistake about it, at 0.83% of the personal consumer market Linux is not popular by any stretch of the imagination), then this wouldn't be a good idea. I know the hope is that Linux programmers would jump in and make a bunch of plug-ins but I still see that as nothing more than mere speculation from Linux enthusiasts.

Doing either for Mac wouldn't be the worst idea, I'd do that before Linux, but the same question comes up again; how popular is this platform for gaming and game-making compared to the MS platforms? I think we all know the answer to that one, PC/MS platforms win that by a landslide. The market is enormous for PC/MS products. Just from a business standpoint, it would make perfect sense to address the sectors that you already know have the most users waiting for your product, start there, and then move down the list. But if money doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter if you go after tiny sectors like Linux and the rest that are all smaller than PC/MS.

[quote="deadeye":c06tgrd4]And there are a lot more smart-phone owners out there than there are 360 owners[/quote:c06tgrd4]

But gamer spending on console games far exceeds spending on cellphone games. It's not even close from a revenue standpoint, and you also have to consider that not every smartphone owner plays games. So you have to extract the number of people with cellphones who don't play games on it and I'd imagine that number is probably larger than believed. But with the consoles, you know they play games on them because that's what the consoles were built for.

[quote="deadeye":c06tgrd4]Also, for every 360 owner that does buy an XBLIG game, there are even more who don't. People generally get a 360 in order to play triple-A titles. Phones, on the other hand, are a different animal entirely. People are more accepting of smaller, simpler games on their phone. Plus the portable nature means more opportunity to buy and play games. People are much more likely to drop $3 on Generic Stick Figure Zombie Arena Shooter on their phone when they can play it on their lunch breaks or on the toilet or whatever, but not so much when you can only play it on your couch on a system that you could be playing Halo: Reach or Red Dead Redemption on instead.[/quote:c06tgrd4]

That's why I brought up the fact that xna's versatility allows you to create games for Mobile platforms as well (Zune, Windows Phone). That goes beyond XBLIG.

[quote="deadeye":c06tgrd4]But as far as top priority goes, I still think Mac/Linux support is where it's at. The most common complaint I see from the indie community is "well this game looks neat but it's Windows only so I can't play it *frowny face*." More OS support would be a big draw for indie devs.[/quote:c06tgrd4]

Mostly for Mac. Linux support isn't going to draw enough Linux gamers to make a difference because, well, the Linux market is a speck at 0.83% of personal computer users as quoted by a Linux source (and they were probably being generous with that number, too, lol), and the number of people playing games on Linux is obviously even smaller than that. And again, this rush of lInux devs jumping on Construct is wishful thinking and speculation.

[quote="deadeye":c06tgrd4]
I really don't think that's true. If you have a source on this I'd be happy to get schooled though :). And anyway, as time goes on smart phones will become even more prevalent, and console owners still won't be able to carry their consoles around and play them.[/quote:c06tgrd4]

You're far more likely to walk into a home and find a Wii, 360, PS3 or PS2 (PS2 especially) before you find an Android or an Iphone, and even if you did find one of the phones it's highly unlikely that person is using it as their primary gaming device which makes sense since gaming consoles and PC's are still the best option for serious gaming. There is a reason why single console games still sell in the millions of copies and phone games generally don't do anything close to that number even while being priced as low as 50x less than the average console game.
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Post » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:07 pm

Demand for Unix games is really, really low. When you ask for games in linux forums most people will usually point you to the bundled board games and say "they're pretty good". Linux has never been for the gaming oriented. That said, that minority is very vocal, as Linux has always been comunity oriented.

Mac on the other hand... too small an install base. I'd rather have consoles or mobile, where you can rest assured your indie games will be looked at (I mean, look at some of the top sellers there!). Then again mobile means like a jillion different platforms. iPhone right now is the biggest (I think) platform with the least variation. Only 3G, 3GS and 4. You aim for 3G which has decent hardware and you get it all, including iPod Touch. Android might be big one day, but it is not yet.

So.... in order of preference, merely for user base
console (any) > mobile (iPhone or MAYBE Android) > Mac > Linux.
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:34 am

gonna chime in again.
yeah, i think iphone has the larger share, but it's inevitable they'll be overtaken in the near future by android, and probably windows mobile 7 as well.

also, I'm not much for license knowhow, but I've seen more than one multiplatform game or app editor, that requires a mac to export to iphone. Something about special mac files needed to compile to iphone, and typical steve jobs bullshiz. Might be something to look into
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:28 am

@Ray:
As far as Mac/Linux prevalence goes, sure I guess I'll concede on that point. Though if there were a Linux port you'd be about five inches away from an Android port as well, so two birds down with one stone there. And I'd wager that the percentage of Mac and Linux users in the indie community is much higher than average, again judging from aforementioned Windows-only complaints.

At any rate, OS support would still be more inclusive imo because as I said before, everyone has a computer, with one OS or another. Not everyone has an iPhone or console.

[quote="RaymondHooks":k9ovhvqj][quote="deadeye":k9ovhvqj]
I really don't think that's true. If you have a source on this I'd be happy to get schooled though :). And anyway, as time goes on smart phones will become even more prevalent, and console owners still won't be able to carry their consoles around and play them.[/quote:k9ovhvqj]

You're far more likely to walk into a home and find a Wii, 360, PS3 or PS2 (PS2 especially) before you find an Android or an Iphone, and even if you did find one of the phones it's highly unlikely that person is using it as their primary gaming device which makes sense since gaming consoles and PC's are still the best option for serious gaming. There is a reason why single console games still sell in the millions of copies and phone games generally don't do anything close to that number even while being priced as low as 50x less than the average console game.[/quote:k9ovhvqj]

Sure, you can walk into just about any home in the country and find one of any number of different consoles. Maybe even two. Rarely will you find all three current-gen consoles, though.

Anyway, let's leave Wii out, since you can't make and sell a game without a publisher, or at least a license and a dev kit, all of which are well out of reach for most indies. And PS2 may still be quite popular, but... well, you can't sell games on there either so it's a rather moot point. Likewise with the PS3... there is no XNA or XBLIG equivalent. You need to get a license and devkit in order to develop there as well. At least, as far as I know. I don't know much about the PS3, but I couldn't find anything out there like that. Sooo... that leaves the 360.

And yes, if you total up all the Wiis, PS2s and 3s, and 360s in American households, the number probably outshines the number of smart phones out there. But we're not totaling up all those consoles because the only viable dev platform for indies out of the lot is the 360, you can sure as hell bet that game sales on the iPhone are a hell of a lot more common than game sales on XBLIG.

And the point is rather moot but I was under the impression that there are 3rd party programs like Torque and such that can publish on XBLIG too...?

Also I don't mean to be rude but being able to publish to Zune and Windows Phone is... well, it's kind of like saying you can publish your game on a unicorn's butt because really who the hell owns a Zune or a Windows phone? :P So in that regard "Being able to make games for 4 platforms" is really just two platforms, and since Windows is one of those platforms in Construct already then that leaves 360 as your second and I've already put too fine a point on why I don't think that's really a priority.
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:14 am

[quote="deadeye":3ah571au]...who the hell owns a Zune....[/quote:3ah571au]


I own a Zune. ;-;
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:30 am

[quote="deadeye":1ly9u31h]Though if there were a Linux port you'd be about five inches away from an Android port as well, so two birds down with one stone there.[/quote:1ly9u31h]
Thats very rather true.

[quote="deadeye":1ly9u31h]Likewise with the PS3... there is no XNA or XBLIG equivalent.[/quote:1ly9u31h]
There's this thing called PS3 Minis, but I have no idea what the hell is that. Maybe someone can shed light on that? I still believe indie iPhone sales are much, much bigger than indie PS3 sales.
And you DO need a mac somewhere in the process. Damn jobs. Or at least OSX ;)
I believe Unity does it like that. Generate the project files, then go find a mac to compile them.

[quote="deadeye":1ly9u31h]really who the hell owns a Zune or a Windows phone? :P[/quote:1ly9u31h]
With all respect to Fresh frijoles and all other kinds of frijoles, I was about to point this out. Windows Mobile overtaking iPhone/Android?

Unlikely.
I will eat a small chocolate cake with marzipan topping if that ever happens.

Yes. It's a crappy bet, but if I'm getting a crushed ego (and tolerating MS in a cellphone), at least I'll have some sugar to wash it down.
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:10 pm

[quote="deadeye":pkeph5fo]

[quote="ldmn":pkeph5fo]-Consoles are so widespread according to some news, it is a broader market possibility![/quote:pkeph5fo]

I really don't think that's true. If you have a source on this I'd be happy to get schooled though :). And anyway, as time goes on smart phones will become even more prevalent, and console owners still won't be able to carry their consoles around and play them.[/quote:pkeph5fo]

Right thou art.
xbox 360 sell numbers seem to be a magnitude lower than smartphones. (I didnt make a thorough survey though, you can have better search results)
xbox sales:
[url:pkeph5fo]http://kotaku.com/359527/18-million-360s-sold-worldwide[/url:pkeph5fo]
smart phones:
[url:pkeph5fo]http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/survey-one-in-five-smartphones-sold-in-2010-will-run-android-20100818/[/url:pkeph5fo]
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:40 pm

[quote="deadeye":shub8p2n]

Sure, you can walk into just about any home in the country and find one of any number of different consoles. Maybe even two. Rarely will you find all three current-gen consoles, though.

Anyway, let's leave Wii out, since you can't make and sell a game without a publisher, or at least a license and a dev kit, all of which are well out of reach for most indies. And PS2 may still be quite popular, but... well, you can't sell games on there either so it's a rather moot point. Likewise with the PS3... there is no XNA or XBLIG equivalent. You need to get a license and devkit in order to develop there as well. At least, as far as I know. I don't know much about the PS3, but I couldn't find anything out there like that. Sooo... that leaves the 360.

And yes, if you total up all the Wiis, PS2s and 3s, and 360s in American households, the number probably outshines the number of smart phones out there. But we're not totaling up all those consoles because the only viable dev platform for indies out of the lot is the 360, you can sure as hell bet that game sales on the iPhone are a hell of a lot more common than game sales on XBLIG.[/quote:shub8p2n]

I brought up those consoles because you questioned the broadness of the console market vs. cellphones. Sure, if you base the viability strictly on how many cellphones have been sold vs consoles it would seem that cell's win, but the important factor in the equation is figuring out how many people with cellphones are actually playing games on them and how much they're spending when they do. I haven't heard any eye-popping sales numbers from that sector for single games or heard of any super blockbusters that rival major console game numbers. I would think if so many more people were playing games on them there would have to have been one huge blockbuster game. Last I heard, Tetris was the highest selling ever on cell's, but all that is is a casual remake of a game that was already huge.


[quote="deadeye":shub8p2n]And the point is rather moot but I was under the impression that there are 3rd party programs like Torque and such that can publish on XBLIG too...?[/quote:shub8p2n]

Yes, but you still have to know C# to make anything presentable.


[quote="deadeye":shub8p2n]
Also I don't mean to be rude but being able to publish to Zune and Windows Phone is... well, it's kind of like saying you can publish your game on a unicorn's butt because really who the hell owns a Zune or a Windows phone? :P So in that regard "Being able to make games for 4 platforms" is really just two platforms, and since Windows is one of those platforms in Construct already then that leaves 360 as your second and I've already put too fine a point on why I don't think that's really a priority.[/quote:shub8p2n]

Zune has sold about 3.5 million units, not big but it's something. Windows Phone isn't out yet so of course no one owns it yet, but that will change quickly. But that's all beside the point. The point about this is that you can create a game in xna that can be translated--with the proper know-how--across 4 platforms. Take the Express Game Maker for example; it lets you make an xna compatible game and either deploy it directly and start the process of selling the game on XBL, or you can export the code and mod the code to translate to any of the other MS platforms. The price of admission is lower than going the Apple route. I mean, to be certain, getting your game on the iphone is going to cost you a lot more than the $99 Creators club fee from MS, and if you wind up needing some Apple hardware, then you're really in for it.
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Post » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:27 pm

[quote="RaymondHooks":p85s1zmb]The price of admission is lower than going the Apple route. I mean, to be certain, getting your game on the iphone is going to cost you a lot more than the $99 Creators club fee from MS, and if you wind up needing some Apple hardware, then you're really in for it.[/quote:p85s1zmb]

I will concede that the total cost to publish on the iPhone is much larger than on the 360. There are pros and cons to all of these options. I still think that when everything is tallied up, the cost to benefit ratio for the iPhone shows a higher potential for profitability. And if I'm being perfectly honest, I don't really have any data to support that theory, it's just a gut feeling.

At any rate, as far as smart-phones go, Android would probably be a better choice, seeing as how you don't need any special hardware except the phone itself. And there's a need for good games on the Android right now, but I guess that doesn't really matter because by the time C2 comes out it'll have plenty. Still, people will want their fart-noise apps and Bejeweled clones!

[quote="madster":p85s1zmb][quote="deadeye":p85s1zmb]Likewise with the PS3... there is no XNA or XBLIG equivalent.[/quote:p85s1zmb]
There's this thing called PS3 Minis, but I have no idea what the hell is that. Maybe someone can shed light on that?[/quote:p85s1zmb]

I'd like to hear more about this as well.




Ooohh.... just had an idea for a game! A BEJEWELED CLONE THAT MAKES FART NOISES WHEN YOU CLEAR GEMS! I'm so copyrighting this.
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