Construct 2 - Realistic State after 1 gazilion downloads

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:01 am

Just my opininon.

I think it is better to focus at the positive and not the negative as we are taugt by the media.
There are problems but there are also strenghts that our HTML5 C2 carries. I think it is a quite transparent engine with honest goals and vision towards the future!

Let me pitch another idea. A lot of talk on performance was focused on final exporting/publishing stage. What about first steps? Ashley; I think a direct scripting access would offer a completely new dimension to C2? What are your thoughts on the subject? (imagine construct editor with additional underlying scripting editor - gamemakers valhalla maybe? ;) )
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Post » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:55 pm

@moxBorealis there's a difference between focusing on the negative and discussing ways to address something's weak points and how to make it better, which I think most, if not all of of us are doing.
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Post » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:12 pm

moxBorealis wrote:Let me pitch another idea. A lot of talk on performance was focused on final exporting/publishing stage. What about first steps? Ashley; I think a direct scripting access would offer a completely new dimension to C2? What are your thoughts on the subject? (imagine construct editor with additional underlying scripting editor - gamemakers valhalla maybe? ;) )

The main purpose of C2's IDE is to use as little direct scripting as possible.
There also is a way to do direct scripting in the software, which is the Browser's run JS function. I have used it to execute actions of JZIP that I made an include plugin for one of my projects. It doesn't work with code minifcation, but it works as intended. However with the IDE you're still stuck with the event system for 99% of what is needed.

Even with the event system you're not stuck doing nothing with scripting as you can script plugins, in which the plugins work as they should every action you call on them. This is basically how functions work in JS as well as in C2. The event environment eliminates typos from commands (but not from entries), and provides a set amount of actions that each plugin can do. Since you can make your own plugin if you need to, you still have access to scripting at any level you choose.

Quite frankly if you really want direct access to pure JS code you're better off not using C2 or making your own plugins that do what you need them to do.
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Post » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:14 pm

QuaziGNRLnose wrote:A lot of people, i'd even say the majority, use tools like construct/gamemaker/multimedia-fusion etc. because they want to make their "dream" game, not because they want to make their game as marketable and cross platform as possible. It's a hobby, and i think enabling people to make their game as big and complicated as they want within the scope of current hardware, rather than force them into cutting back so many features modern hardware would allow, makes C2 a lot less appealing to a lot of users.
I am very, very confused with your post. You said "enabling people to make their game as big and complicated as they want [...] makes C2 a lot less appealing to a lot of users", which makes no sense.
Then you said
QuaziGNRLnose wrote:A lot of people didn't leave because we got tired and stopped using the software
Wait, what? You're saying people got tired and stopped using the software, and for that reason, they didn't leave?

I think I agree with what you said, or maybe I agree with the opposite of what you said? I can't be certain.
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Post » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:34 pm

Come now, it's not fair to take a half sentence and twist their meanings people.
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Post » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:12 am

QuaziGNRLnose wrote:I don't really post around here anymore, but i have been using construct continually since all those years back when classic was starting out.

As it stands i don't see myself using C2 very often compared to CC, even though its a way superior tool to classic in terms of stability. C2 has definitely improved a TON since it started out, things with more complexity than a few events and some behaviors actually end up working quite well on desktop, yet it falls short in so many areas because it's held back by trying to achieve what classic did in a webpage. The whole advantage of doing everything in html5 for C2 was to make the games work on as wide a range of platforms as possible, and yet in trying to use html5 as a catchall C2 games end up working from my experience okay-to-well on desktop and shoddily everywhere else. I feel like in choosing html5 C2 has become a jack of all trades and master of none. Its a bit frustrating coming from an experienced background using Classic that the successor to it still hasn't surpassed it at making games that run natively. In fact it's honestly nowhere close as long as its using html5, with all the overhead that comes with using html5 vs the performance a native game using opengl/directX would have.

I'm not trying to hate on C2, its a fantastic program and i do end up using it because having a game that runs everywhere is a beautiful thing. But its disappointing that html5, and not C2 is whats limiting me. With CC i could literally look at ANY 2D game, and even simple 3D ones and understand that it would be plausible to make a large portion of them exactly as they were using CC alone. With C2 i see a game and though building it is possible getting the performance you'd expect on modern hardware isn't.

I don't really know the details of how C2 is designed, but i just wish it could export native games that used SDL with opengl, or something similar, so that games that take advantage of modern hardware could finally be made using it, rather than what a lot of people see as a novelty in making their games run in browsers.

A lot of people, i'd even say the majority, use tools like construct/gamemaker/multimedia-fusion etc. because they want to make their "dream" game, not because they want to make their game as marketable and cross platform as possible. It's a hobby, and i think enabling people to make their game as big and complicated as they want within the scope of current hardware, rather than force them into cutting back so many features modern hardware would allow, makes C2 a lot less appealing to a lot of users. I think this is pretty evident in the way the old user-base was essentially alienated with the new goals scirra had in making C2 from its inception to when CC was retired. A lot of people didn't leave because we got tired and stopped using the software, its just C2 didn't fill our needs and still hasn't.


Good post. This is one of the engine biggest weakness. The HTML 5 nonsense. The engine workflow and creation process its the advantage, the rest is the disadvantage. Imagine (i repeat myself) a CC, Gamemaker with this production flow, export open gl, exe desktop, and then in time develop other exporters. Scirra put all their money in html 5 non sense and that's why we are here.

I never picked up the engine for the Html 5 nonsense, i only saw it as a plus that you can put a demo online, but that was it. It didnt even had a exe wrapper back in those days lol.

In theory you can make a html 5 game and work on all platforms, on practice, no, unless you make a very static and simple game. For example i made a small game for Desktop, works well, unless (blacklisted gfxs), to make it work on canvas2d browsers it almost impossible, most of the time. Half is because how the engine is made, and half because of this shitty HTML 5 technology(that in 1 gazillion years will be cool ...). JS Frameworks like Phaser have very high performance, and while they are simple to use them, i dont have time for it since i am not a professional programmer and it was never my intention to be.

Made a small game:

- Works on desktop
- After optimization(so bassicly another version) it barely works on web mobile
- After another optimization and basically another version, works good with wrapper on iphone 4s and samsung galaxy s2 and up. A fracking flappy clone! Epic multiplatform!

So overall this non sense of HTML 5 multiplatform is not real at the moment, it might be in a few years, but i guess many of us wont be here.

I am still working with c2 now, but every day i think about moving on to another engine, probably Unity as soon as i have more time for developing or just develop for desktop, and pray for the best lol...
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Post » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:25 am

@lwgames

You are seriously doing something wrong if you cannot get a flappy clone to work great on mobiles.

Took me 4 hrs to do a flappy clone with my own art: https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... apps&hl=en

Another of my simple game, but with heaps of moving objects, bullets and sine behaviour, runs flawless even on very old phones:
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Fast fighting game also works great on mobiles: Street Kungfu (https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ngfu&hl=en)

Fast platformer: Poise (https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... oise&hl=en)

Some of the criticisms here are very valid, but this is not a fair criticism. Simple games do work great on mobiles with C2 and HTML5. Even bigger complex games work well. Just because the engine is easy to use, does not mean its easy to optimize and plan your game around the limitations of mobiles.
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Post » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:22 pm

It´s just like Photoshop...your pictures won´t look good, because PS can possibly do it.... it´s in how to use the software and ressources!!
Of course there are some weak points.... but other tools do have them as well, it´s all to you to make your game look, feel and work great!
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Post » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:32 pm

Silverforce wrote:@lwgames

You are seriously doing something wrong if you cannot get a flappy clone to work great on mobiles.

Took me 4 hrs to do a flappy clone with my own art: https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... apps&hl=en


These games are all using CocoonJS, which is currently the only way to get good performance on mobile devices in many cases. But of course CocoonJS is coming with its own bag of problems. That's probably why Scirra is promoting the use of Crosswalk, which doesn't do anything to speed up HTML5 games compared to just using the mobile Chrome browser. Which may be relatively fast, but can in no way rival the real thing. So I think it's fair to say that there is indeed still a general performance problem with HTML5.
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Post » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:39 pm

PixelRebirth wrote:
Silverforce wrote:@lwgames

You are seriously doing something wrong if you cannot get a flappy clone to work great on mobiles.

Took me 4 hrs to do a flappy clone with my own art: https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... apps&hl=en


These games are all using CocoonJS, which is currently the only way to get good performance on mobile devices in many cases. But of course CocoonJS is coming with its own bag of problems. That's probably why Scirra is promoting the use of Crosswalk, which doesn't do anything to speed up HTML5 games compared to just using the mobile Chrome browser. Which may be relatively fast, but can in no way rival the real thing. So I think it's fair to say that there is indeed still a general performance problem with HTML5.


Actually, my most complex game is done with Crosswalk via Intel XDK, because CocoonJS falls on its face with big games with lots of assets (450MB loaded into memory!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4krwUmmb3c <== flawless on older phones with a 1ghz dual-core and 512mb ram.

Crosswalk actually runs smoother/faster than CJS as it is, the only downside is its lack of Ad/IAP support, but its a temporary downside from what @IntelRoberts is saying.

Yes, we have lots of room for improvements but as it is, you can create great games with the functional parts. Will you be able to make whatever you want run great on mobiles? Heck no. Figure out what works and what doesn't and optimize.
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