Construct 3 - many questions (native exporterts)

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:48 pm

mahdi71 wrote:but your c2 is a great software it can make billions you just not so serious about it
so i suggest you hire people and programmers to develop it and spend some money
i will promise you will get so much more then now


A business is not that simple. Scirra aimed for a gap on the market and made a very good software to fill it up: HTML5 game creation environment with visual programming. In my opinion it's fine to give suggestions for Scirra to let them see what the community wants, but at the end it's up to their will and opportunities how they manage their business.
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Post » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:33 pm

glerikud wrote:
mahdi71 wrote:but your c2 is a great software it can make billions you just not so serious about it
so i suggest you hire people and programmers to develop it and spend some money
i will promise you will get so much more then now


A business is not that simple. Scirra aimed for a gap on the market and made a very good software to fill it up: HTML5 game creation environment with visual programming. In my opinion it's fine to give suggestions for Scirra to let them see what the community wants, but at the end it's up to their will and opportunities how they manage their business.
Yes 2 years ago yes there was a gap 2d html5 was a gap but
unity have 2d and html5 now
and there are other engines too so it's time to change
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:21 am

It's interesting the number of threads that turn into exporters because of performance X reason. Personally I think the big weakness is that C2 isn't friendly for complicated game development. Object structures, team asset management, lack of modularity, lack of Object>Sheets so on etc are so problematic. Personally and this is just an opinion if these problems were fixed

Object Structure = Scene Hierarchy with Object Pattern(ie part of scene graph of objects are saved as it's own object, similar to container, but more flexible)

Team Asset Management = art, audio files should automatically sync when updated with the requirement of manual updating to associated links.

Modularity = better re-use of code chunks.

OOP = More logistical design for creating a game that offers better more friendly development patterns to non experienced programmers. There is a reason why OOP is more common than Imperative programming. It's easier to understand, read, write and control in development software.

Better Plugin control = Moduals and plugins should be per project and stored in the project folder. So that when working in a team the plugins and modules are already ready to go.

Sprite Object replaced with SpriteBehavior that uses controlled texture atlas. This would increase performance, reduce memory, and solve poorly made projects. This also means that SpriteAnimator should also be a beahviour so that SpriteRendering and Sprite Animations are not linked.

If these problems and I did say problems were dealt with. I don't think there would be such a cry for native exporters. I feel confident that the average performance of games would significantly increase. But this is all speculation.

Lack of performance is a symptom, not the cause.
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:30 am

mahdi71 wrote:
glerikud wrote:
mahdi71 wrote:but your c2 is a great software it can make billions you just not so serious about it
so i suggest you hire people and programmers to develop it and spend some money
i will promise you will get so much more then now


A business is not that simple. Scirra aimed for a gap on the market and made a very good software to fill it up: HTML5 game creation environment with visual programming. In my opinion it's fine to give suggestions for Scirra to let them see what the community wants, but at the end it's up to their will and opportunities how they manage their business.
Yes 2 years ago yes there was a gap 2d html5 was a gap but
unity have 2d and html5 now
and there are other engines too so it's time to change


And why are you the one to decide that change is required ?

The other tools generally suck at their potential with rapid development, where as Construct still tops it all ...


Why is it not time for you to switch to unity ? seeing as you are quite enthusiastic about it :)
Who dares wins
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:27 am

lennaert wrote:
And why are you the one to decide that change is required ?

The other tools generally suck at their potential with rapid development, where as Construct still tops it all ...


Why is it not time for you to switch to unity ? seeing as you are quite enthusiastic about it :)

i like c2 more :D
and really c2 is fast and i just say need better performance :roll:
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:32 am

mahdi71 wrote:hardware is not so limit as you think !

You are still missing my point. If a game is slow because it is drawing more to the screen than the GPU has bandwidth to handle, then it doesn't matter what technology you use. You could write it in carefully optimised C++, or even hand-tuned assembly instructions, and it would not be any faster at all, because the bottleneck is in the GPU hardware. The only way to optimise in that case is to draw fewer objects, which you can already do in C2.

This thread highlights exactly my resistance to making native exporters. People identify that the game is slow on weak hardware, specifically call out a case where GPU hardware limitations are the bottleneck, and then ask for native exporters as a solution. In the described situation, the suggested solution will not help. Developing native runtimes to try and fix that case is pure folly.

As I've always said before, WebGL uses the GPU pretty much identically to a native app. Javascript has some performance overhead, but it's generally not the bottleneck except perhaps in a minority of exceptionally complex games. And with modern devices like the iPhone 6S benchmarking close to laptop CPU performance and continuing improvements to Javascript JIT compilers, this overhead is becoming even less significant. Were it a significant problem, something like WebAssembly would solve it in a far more practical and portable manner.

Anyway few people seem to understand the hardware issues involved here, so I guess we will face continuing calls for native exporters to fix hardware limitations :-\
Scirra Founder
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:43 am

Ashley wrote:Anyway few people seem to understand the hardware issues involved here, so I guess we will face continuing calls for native exporters to fix hardware limitations :-\



You could try and make an example ....

But then again ... you would throw all your skills into the mix ... which would get you a decent performing game ...undermining the thing you are attempting to achieve :lol:


Seriously though, a good example .... could potentially quench all following questions relating to desires for a native exporter ...

I think the time spent on making an example would be far less then the time already spent on answering similar questions ... not to mention those not yet asked :D
Who dares wins
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:05 pm

Is the endless cry for native exporters even because of performance? I thought the issue was 3rd party reliance and the inability to export to consoles and such. Even exporting to Mac and Linux via NW.js seems to be pretty troublesome.

I have had no problems with desktop performance for retro and HD games alike. I've seem some horribly optimized HD games that still ran very well. There's the v-sync issue of course, but that's not a C2 or HTML5 problem to my knowledge.

Mobile performance was terrible last I checked, but that was like 3 years ago using CocoonJS or whatever. I'm with Lennaert on this one. Someone just needs to make a good mobile game example.
Last edited by Tokinsom on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:15 pm

It seems to be a mix of things that keep coming back ; easier exporting processes and deployment pipelines, performance, platform-specific features, etc.

Most of the proposed "solutions" don't actually fix the problems (cpu/gpu optims when gpu/cpu limited, etc.) or are unrealistic (take ownership of all the device specific exporters, etc.).

I think @jayderyu made an interesting list of ideas to improve the creation and authoring process in a previous post ; that's the kind of things that would make a difference and that I'd rather see in future updates.
Last edited by Refeuh on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:17 pm

"I thought the issue was 3rd party reliance"

Bingo
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