Construct as a unity editor extension.

Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:45 pm

Ashley wrote:We did make a native engine in Construct Classic, and it still occasionally dropped frames.

Everyone thinks that making a native engine will magically fix everything. It's not the case.


well one thing is clear, you made Construct nice enough to use that people want to use it everywhere..(like Unity) which is a really good thing. Not saying you would want to do that, just merely looking at the positive. From a business perspective, this is kind of "gold". You've found something people REALLY love.

It's too bad you couldn't leverage this high level functionality and use it on a more robust engine - I think is what the OP is suggesting.

Years ago I used to work at a company where we did everything on an IBM mainframe. All the code was written in Fortran (yuck). Our databases were so huge Fortran wasn't cutting it. So they hired a man named Frank to make a ton of assembly code that could be called from Fortran. He created a massive library of functions in assembly to make everything run crazy fast. Soon everyone's Fortran code became a wall of 'CALL's and then it affectionately became known as Franktran. So all the programmers that loved Fortran got to keep using it (for better or worse?).

Regardless, people need to budget their game's resource demands appropriately - I'm sure a good portion of people wanting the "more robust engine" just need to learn to scope their project better. However, there are those that want to make larger games and don't want to export with wrappers.
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Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Ashley wrote:We did make a native engine in Construct Classic, and it still occasionally dropped frames.

Everyone thinks that making a native engine will magically fix everything. It's not the case.


I love when Construct Classic is being brought into this as if it compares to Unity or GameMaker.

1. Construct 2 and 3 are way more optimized than CC (or so you say in your blog posts). The only way it would be a fair comparison is if these optimizations were back-ported. If there is negligible gains to be had then all the "such better performance!" blog posts are lies/exaggerations no?

2. Your skills a coder are better now and you have more experience from CC & C2 runtimes

3. I still notice CC games are smoother than C2, even on my GTX 1070
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:28 pm

Ashley wrote:We did make a native engine in Construct Classic, and it still occasionally dropped frames.

Everyone thinks that making a native engine will magically fix everything. It's not the case.

I called you out on a far fetching logical leap from this same argument before, why do you keep insisting on it and ignoring the other things brought up and which I specifically pointed out "please comment on these"?

If you're pressed for time, let us know, but otherwise please can you tell us if
1) C3 can achieve a considerable period of no frame skips on every advertised platform, with a minimal project (like platformer with a square)?
2) can vsync be disabled?
3) does the browser and NWJS exported project get lower than usual process priority?
4) are these issues out of your control?

Saying "everyone is saying native is a magic bullet" tells us you're distraught from this. (use of hyperboles, logical fallacy saying CC did it bad, so it's acceptable that C3 fails also and native is not gonna fix it).

Besides, this position you're taking that CC also drops frames just as bad doesn't hold water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Z3Zg0YmaA
Software on the background: Photoshop, Chrome, Skype, Construct 2, Construct Classic
Software running: DOOM with CC preview in the bg, you can see it's missing frames (as expected, it's running on background against DOOM).
Then I switch focus to the CC preview and you can see it snags priority and skips ZERO frames in the duration of this video WITH DOOM idling on the backround. + What @Jayjay said: CC is supposedly less optimized than C3

I give you the benefit of the doubt on this matter, as you might be blinded from working so closely to this for so long (as I was from working with an HTML5 engine before), but this is irrefutable evidence that a blank-ish project runs smoother on native on your own software (CC)
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Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:52 pm

Trying to follow this thread as it is seems to get a bit out of topic. But what i guess people are saying is...

They love the event sheet way of doing games but not so happy about the c2/c3 as an engine?

I can get where they are coming from, as i would like to try make 3D games, but Scirra has no intention of adding 3d support, and probably would't make an event sheet plugin for other engines. Using event sheet is the only way that makes sense to me. So I'm kind of stuck here, LOL.

All in all I think Construct is a great product though, but I also wish every engine had an event sheet. Kind of like music software has a sequencer/key editor, because I don't really feel like growing a neckbeard and start drinking jolt cola, and learning how to "code" lol.
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or in this thread Archer Devlog
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Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:46 pm

Native rant/ passive aggressive attempt to ask for better performance.
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Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:17 pm

Trying to follow this thread as it is seems to get a bit out of topic. But what i guess people are saying is...


Well Ashley started it.... :)

Ashley wrote:Everyone keeps bringing up v-sync, talking about a bug that was literally fixed in 2014. It's not been an issue for years...... people are just dredging up old and years-ago fixed bugs to try to make their case.


Stop clouding the issue being discussed. You always do that to make "your own case".
Tom wrote:Hard to build a business that's so reliant on another business and who can pull the rug out from you at any time.

Ashley wrote:There's a world of difference between relying on open-source projects and free software that implements standardised technology with open specifications, and transforming our business in to a UI skin for another closed-source game engine which doesn't care about us at all.


You guys were saying your tool is not dependent on other products - which it clearly is - which is why you would not go down the unity path since they don't care about others.

The issue of jank was proof that Google doesn't care about you either. And don't think they will not break it in the future and then take another 8 months or so to fix it. Why because you don't matter, they don't care about some company trying to make a game engine.

Exporting C2 (C3 will be no different) to other mediums is fraught with all kinds of issues - therefore it is great for browser games on a reasonable spec PC (asside for issues mentioned again in this thread) but for mobile dev, performance, well.......

So therefore to me C2\C3 are great prototyping tools.

Michael wrote:As already said, there is a reason why the big devs have moved on to other tools to develop their games, which amazingly are still the pull-strings on the home page - think about it....


Think about it......
If it can be done, someone on the web will show you how to do it!

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Post » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:21 pm

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Post » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:14 am

Tinimations wrote:This too summarizes pretty well how I feel. I'm very close myself to abandoning Construct because of this. After 3+ years of learning and excercising optimization tricks, I still can't feel confident that my game will run hard locked at a given framerate. This is soul crushing when making action packed music games that can't miss a beat.

Just wanted to say that, in the end I didn't abandon Construct because of jank issues. I'm actually more impressed with C2's general performance now after replicating my project in GMS2 :P I ported it over and stuck with it because:

1) My event code was getting bloated and hard to manage, and with some long-standing bugs I struggled to squash. It was in need of refactoring. So I thought, why not try and port it to GMS2 while I'm at it?

2) Apart from UWP and WiiU, C2 can't deploy to consoles. I know console may be a bit of a long shot anyway, but with GMS the possibility is there at least.

3) The way GMS works is a bit better suited for pixel art games, and for me at least it's faster and easier to handle large amounts of animations in GMS's built-in sprite editor. Huge reason for me to switch right there, as my game has literally thousands of animation frames!

Not gonna lie, it's nice to not have to worry about jank issues anymore. But that was a minor reason for my choice all in all. And C2 definitely has some advantages over GMS. I can see why the jank is extra concerning for your game tho, being rythm-based and all.
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Post » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:24 am

ErekT wrote:2) Apart from UWP and WiiU, C2 can't deploy to consoles. I know console may be a bit of a long shot anyway, but with GMS the possibility is there at least.

Well....aside from porting to the PS4, thats really the only difference in console export that C2/C3 can't do (yet). Actually i think GMS1 might be able to get on the Vita too...can't recall. GMS2 only does PS4 and XboxOne. Even the folks at YoyoGames has made it clear that they're not having much luck with Nintendo. Your best bet in this department is either : Unity, Unreal, MonoGame, or using a porting company (a lot of indies do this anyways). Note that pretty much every game engine thats not Unity or Unreal has a thread like this with everyone bugging the devs for console export.

But here's the thing though. While its every indie developer's ultimate goal to get their games on consoles (me included), from what I hear the bulk of revenue made from their games are actually not from consoles but rather PC itself. And...the vast majority of us can barely complete a game worthy of being on a console anyways (especially me).

Not knocking on GMS2 though. Been playing around with it lately and i'm liking it a lot.
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Post » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:21 am

@Cryptwalker Xbox One likely has better performance thanks to Edge and WebGL, but what Scirra called console export on the Wii U was not good enough to actually release an action game on.

That said, console export was the largest draw of funding for our latest successful Kickstarter and if we werent using Unity there would be a lot less interest as most of it was PS4, Switch, and Vita. Saying games do best on PC is simply not looking accurate to me comparing C2's best sellers to games like Super Meat Boy and Shovel Knight.

There are some kinds of games that will sell great on PC, but there is also more competition due to lower requirements to enter the market, and even if you have many Steam users showing up on SteamSpy a lot of those could be people who purchase resold keys from bundles and giveaways that make you effectively no profit.

Overall though, console support matters, especially to indies working commercially.

Unless Scirra start getting hands-on with making at least native wrappers for consoles, mobile, and desktop themselves (I'm happy enough with ports of open source wrappers even) and take accountability for them, I can't recommend serious projects to be made in this until the day every single device, mobile/console/desktop, is running a real Chrome browser equivalent and has specs matching a PS4 or higher.
Last edited by Jayjay on Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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