Construct Classic is "officially" dead?

New releases and general discussions.

Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:29 am

[QUOTE=Qwary]When I see 60 fps in big 3D games with large (high resolution) textures, DX11 and 10-15 fps with DX9 and 5-6 shader effects in 2D Construct applications, it makes me laugh.[/QUOTE]
It makes me laugh, too. Why do you think that comparing the almost two times faster DX11 to DX9 and comparing the completely C++ written engines of "big 3D games" with an event system of a 2D game maker could make any sense? If you need that 3D speed, then write your game in C++ using one of the many C++ engines out there. If you need comfort in 2D, stick to CC. You won't find a faster 2D game maker (even Torque2D included).

[QUOTE=Qwary]I've seen it all. It did not impress me. Too corny.[/QUOTE]
What is corny about a realtime calculated mantis movement with smooth movement transitions? I wonder what you expect of a 2D game?

[QUOTE=Qwary]I'm talking about simplifying creation of more complex processes. Construct has already taken the first steps in this direction. I mean the idea of visual programming. There's so much that can still be done.[/QUOTE]
But simplifying the creation of more complex processes is exactly what I meant. You won't get it, unless you use a game maker that is specialized on one type of game (e.g. an rpg maker, or an adventure maker, etc.).
Visual programming? Like placing your sprite on the layout, load its animations and put on a movement behavior? I think it already is very visual. Or do you hope for some kind of visual scripting? That won't happen, because Ashley decided to go with ACE. But there are a few other engines that support visual scripting. Have a look at UDK or Unity. While they are 3D engines, you can also do 2D by just ignoring the 3rd axis.
I downloaded both, but decided to stay with CC, just because of the ease of use. But then again, I also do not make games with 1024 textures or a dozen of complex pixel shaders. I would really like to know, what you use that huge textures for? Until today, I did not see any 2D game making use of them, so maybe you've come up with a totally new idea, that might be worth being used with a 3D engine under C++ and DX11 instead?
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:38 am

I admire all of your debating skills, guys, but I doubt if they will alter Qwary's opinion - it's obviously deeply rooted.

But he is entitled to his own opinion, so I say leave him with it.

Personally, I am happy to wait for the next release, and hang my head because I am too damn lazy to teach myself C++ in order to help :(

My continuing thanks to you all.

Martin
If your vision so exceeds your ability, then look to something closer.
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:55 am

[QUOTE=lucid]...let alone when the c2 plugin comes out, and people can create assets that load in html5 and cc exe's, opening the possibility to have an experience shared between the web and desktop.[/QUOTE]

Wow... for real? That sounds awesome!
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:14 am

[QUOTE=plauk] [QUOTE=lucid]...let alone when the c2 plugin comes out, and people can create assets that load in html5 and cc exe's, opening the possibility to have an experience shared between the web and desktop.[/QUOTE]

Wow... for real? That sounds awesome! [/QUOTE]
yes, I meant spriter assets in particular, and an eventual level editor, but that's even further down the line. I think a good usage would be to allow people to create characters and play mini games with them online, and link them to the full paid exe game where they can download those same characters and use them in a full game

In regards to the op, more for the sake of any other new users that stumble upon this thread, since op's most recent post is beginning to sound a bit trollish in tone. Right, I said 2d games. I've never seen a 2d game with 5 shaders and thousands of 512x512 objects on the screen. Just for the sake of expirementing I just made a cap with 1000 objects randomly selected from a pool of 256 different 512x512 textures all rotating moving and detecting collisions, and all on screen at the same time, and it was still running at well over 100 fps.   Granted it didn't have shaders, but seeing as how you can only actually fit 8 or 9 on a very hi res screen, not to mention how quick you'll run out of vram doing frame by frame animation at that size(not because it's cc, but because of how vram and frame based animation works), I don't see what you'd need more power than that for, and we're talking 2d games here. That amount of power is beyond overkill, and well into ridiculous.   That means you have more than enough power to make something like castle crashers but where you could zoom in until individual characters are half a screen tall with no pixellation or blurriness. I've never seen anything even close to this in a 2d game.

And regardless of what you call corny, the aforementioned games taken as a whole all demonstrate that it's possible to use construct to create hi quality games, including games with features well outside cc's core feature set, using no scripting at all. It sounds like what you need is a 'make my game for me' button, and unfortunately for you, cc is probably the closest thing you're going to get to that, at least as far as anything that has any real power or flexibility.

Also, if you have any links to any of your own noncorny creations, im curious to see some of the awesome work you've done.lucid2012-02-04 10:26:49
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:47 am

[QUOTE=Kyatric] How come you can't do everything in windows XP like you can in win7 ?
That's the same kind of question/remark/comparison and heresy.
=> 10 years of development, 10 years of technology, 10 years of improvement of the computer gear and the worldwide spread of those[/QUOTE]
Why do you say about the age of technology? 2D graphic has been around for a long time. There are many libraries and other 2D engines. Another thing is that there are people who cannot use them properly. You know, sometimes code optimization can do wonders. More sophisticated algorithms are used for this purpose.

[QUOTE=GenkiGenga]Harsh Qwary, some of those games are absolutely impressive![/QUOTE]
I dont think so. It may be impressive for showing the Construct's features, but not for major indie projects.

[QUOTE=tulamide]It makes me laugh, too. Why do you think that comparing the almost two times faster DX11 to DX9 and comparing the completely C++ written engines of "big 3D games" with an event system of a 2D game maker could make any sense? If you need that 3D speed, then write your game in C++ using one of the many C++ engines out there. If you need comfort in 2D, stick to CC. You won't find a faster 2D game maker (even Torque2D included).[/QUOTE]
I understand the difference between programming 3D and 2D graphics. But that is just avoiding the obvious question. Why cannot optimize the 2D graphic even better? Just like 3D graphic. Why not?

[QUOTE=tulamide] what you expect of a 2D game?[/QUOTE]
Innovative, intelligent and exciting gameplay.

[QUOTE=tulamide] I would really like to know, what you use that huge textures for? [/QUOTE]
For example, to create a very detailed background on one large texture.
When creating huge levels that would be very helpful.

[QUOTE=lucid] it sounds like what you need is a 'make my game for me' button[/QUOTE]
I mean need more plugins, behaviors, objects, context menus, a more comfortable level editor, etc.
In other words, everything that contributes to the simplification of routine work.

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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:17 pm

lol...
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:45 pm

you still have yet to point out a 2d game that has some feature or graphics that construct can't handle. [quote=Qwary][quote=tulamide]I would really like to know, what you use that huge textures for?[/quote]For example, to create a very detailed background on one large texture.When creating huge levels that would be very helpful.[/quote]I tested again with 1000 4096x4096 sprites, again all moving and rotating, which you presumably wouldn't need for backgrounds, but, still running at well over 100fps.   
Just for reference, Unreal Engine 3 doesn't accept textures larger than 4096x4096. [quote=Qwary]There are many libraries and other 2D engines. Another thing is that there are people who cannot use them properly. You know, sometimes code optimization can do wonders. More sophisticated algorithms are used for this purpose. [/quote]Using one insanely large texture for a background is the opposite of optimization. That's not the way people make games, that's not what gfx cards are made to do well. Large detailed backgrounds are made from smaller reusable parts. In the best looking games, these parts are cleverly constructed to be able to blend together in an organic looking way, and mask their repeated use.
CC's graphics and collision code is very fast - once again, it's the fastest 2d engine I've come across. When you go about spouting negative criticisms about things you don't understand, it only exposes your ignorance on the subject - in spite of your attempts to sounds like an expert to aid in your condescending tone.
[quote=Qwary][quote=tulamide]what you expect of a 2D game?[/quote]Innovative, intelligent and exciting gameplay.[/quote][quote=Qwary][quote=lucid]it sounds like what you need is a 'make my game for me' button[/quote]I mean need more plugins, behaviors, objects, context menus, a more comfortable level editor, etc.[/quote]and you want CC to have an Idea Plugin that uses AI to think of ideas for you? CC gives you all the power you need to implement any ideas you think of. If they are truly innovative, then why would there be built in features that have them ready made for you?

learning how to use the software, asking questions, and making specific requests and suggestions will get you further than continually trying to prove your original point. You may have realized that most of the people in this thread who have attempted to help you understand that you've stumbled upon a powerful, easy to use, free product(and most of whom have work you've insulted), have been here a long time, and probably have alot of experience using it. Scirra also happens to be one of the friendliest, most helpful communities you'll find. If you need something simpler, look to microsoft's toy kodu, or maybe as someone else mentioned, rpg maker, or fighting game maker, also, LittleBigPlanet 2 for ps3 is particularly fun/easy, and surprisingly powerful. But if you want real power and the flexibility to make something truly unique, this is about as simple as it gets. If you have some specific suggestion of what can make it easier, then suggest it, and maybe it can go in a future version. Vague suggestions like "make it easier" or "make it better", are pointless.lucid2012-02-04 13:59:06
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:06 pm

[QUOTE=lucid]I tested again with 1000 4096x4096 sprites, again all moving and rotating, which you presumably wouldn't need for backgrounds, but, still running at well over 100fps. [/QUOTE]
Here is a link to download my .cap
I have no more than 4 fps. What am I doing wrong?
[QUOTE=lucid] and you want CC to have an Idea Plugin that uses AI to think of ideas for you? [/QUOTE]
You just do not want to understand what I'm trying to say. You are just trying to catch me in the incompetence of some technical issues. And that's all.
[QUOTE=lucid] If you have some specific suggestion of what can make it easier, then suggest it, and maybe it can go in a future version. [/QUOTE]
I could write a list of changes that should be done. But I doubt that my suggestions are necessary to someone.
Qwary2012-02-04 16:14:01
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:11 pm

[QUOTE=Qwary]Why is nobody interested in further development of Construct (Classic)?[/quote]
r2 would have been out a week ago or so already, but lucid wanted to add another fix, which combined with a badly timed format and reinstall on my part has pushed it back again - should be out soon.

[quote]Personally, I think that Scirra Construct needs to be "reborn" in new form. For example, it may even be a new game maker, new community, etc.[/quote]
This already happened, and we called it "Construct 2".
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Post » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:37 pm

[QUOTE=Qwary] [QUOTE=lucid]I tested again with 1000 4096x4096 sprites, again all moving and rotating, which you presumably wouldn't need for backgrounds, but, still running at well over 100fps.[/QUOTE]Here is a link to download my .cap
I have no more than 4 fps. What am I doing wrong?[/quote]interesting. I'm getting about 15fps with the sine behavior on all of them, and about 30 without it. I have no idea why one png would render slower than another, especially that much slower, but perhaps one of the more knowledgeable folk around here can enlighten us. In any case, even 30 fps with a workload that insanely exaggerated proves the point that there's more than enough power if you take the time to learn how to use it. You should never design a game that way with 1000 4096x4096 sprites on screen, this isn't just in construct. but if you post something along the lines of "My big background texture causes too much slowdown? How can I make a detailed background?" in help/tech support, someone would explain to you why it doesn't work, and how you can work around it. I fact, I believe I asked a very similar question when I was first starting out here.
As far as 5 shaders and it's contribution to slowdown, I don't know much about them, but I suspect the games that look great use more complex shaders, not necessarily more shaders. CC is limited to PS2.0, perhaps this isn't what you'd want, but I'd suspect most 2d titles, including AAA titles don't have multiple shaders running at all times.
[quote=Qwary][QUOTE=lucid] and you want CC to have an Idea Plugin that uses AI to think of ideas for you? [/QUOTE]You just do not want to understand what I'm trying to say. You are just trying to catch me in the incompetence of some technical issues. And that's all.[/quote]
perhaps, and perhaps my sarcasm was unfounded, but this is the conversation I've been following:
[quote][quote=lucid]loot pursuit, yokai, my mantis demo, zotged/daiz's unnamed(?) title, minitroid, towerclimb[/quote][quote=qwary]I've seen it all. It did not impress me. Too corny.[/quote][quote=GenkiGenga]Harsh Qwary, some of those games are absolutely impressive![/quote][quote=qwary]I dont think so. It may be impressive for showing the Construct's features, but not for major indie projects.[/quote][quote=tulamide]...I wonder what you expect of a 2D game?[/quote][quote=qwary]Innovative, intelligent and exciting gameplay.[/quote][/quote]I really don't know what you're trying to say. My point is that CC has the power to create any type of 2d title you want. You say not for major indie projects, but you've still yet to specify what it is that CC lacks that you need.
[quote=Qwary]
[QUOTE=lucid] If you have some specific suggestion of what can make it easier, then suggest it, and maybe it can go in a future version. [/QUOTE]
I could write a list of changes that should be done. But I doubt that my suggestions are necessary to someone.
[/QUOTE] well, if you don't make the suggestion, it definitely won't make it's way into construct. so what was the point of this thread? I thought you were complaining that development isn't fast enough, but somehow it's changed into a convo that construct just isn't useful enough, and never can be? also, if the feature wouldn't be useful to anyone, why would it be included? if it's useful to you, and only you, that's where you have to use your own creating skills to make construct do it. I guess I may be feeding a parasprite here, but seriously, what are these major missing features you keep alluding to?lucid2012-02-04 17:02:56
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