Construct games limits

New releases and general discussions.

Post » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:45 am

What is a "shmup"? Slang for "shoot 'em up" or something else?

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Christian, ninja, warrior, Borg, Time Lord... I am that hero! GSPforChrist2011-08-14 00:46:07
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Post » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:57 am

Yes GSPforChrist.
More a contraction or dev/gamer slang.
New to Construct ? Where to start

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Please attach a capx to any help request or bug report !
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Post » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:54 pm

Thanks dear sirs - arima, tokinsom, tulamide, lucid, others - for thy kind, long explanations now I am more enlightened - the community has showed its bright face to me.

Thanx for mentioning Arsonide's, Quazi's, others' original games. Unfortunately I forgot about them, when asked my original question. To prevent this in the future, perhaps there should be a thread enlisting the videos and/or download links of all the great creations. Thus all newcomers would be quickly amazed - and this would be beneficial to recruit more fans. Perhaps we could have a top ten list of CC creations, based on fans' votes, to show the public the level of CC capability.

Construct Classic is very charming and has a vivid, gr8 community but in spite of that, if creating games takes months or years then everything is understood. It was me who was impatient seeing this nice editor with so many possibilities but with so few creations. I don't know how many options, behaviors of Construct are generally used in games, but rarely used ones - like RTS bahavior - shouldn't get so much attention from developers, methinks. Rather, I would advise for C2 to aim for stability, but with less options. Thus perhaps creating big games wouldn't be a pain, and we could have some games for marketing purposes sooner.

Mr. Tulamide, - yes, volunteers are welcome, - an RTS game creation would be a nice accomplishment, but I am more liable to choose proven paths, which have fine tutorials - not liking the idea of experimenting unforseen things, neither the idea of seeing you only in a year.

What I don't like about Construct's finished games is: they are rather experiments than games, thus they generally don't achieve the level of enjoyment of 8 bit (arcade) games. Being the only exception perhaps Towerclimb and a few others. Although those games from the 80's were also made by individuals or very small teams (in assembly mostly), I wonder when will community creations be replayable and fun to play.
What I also have experienced that these creations mostly use very few sprites, and they are not complex in gameplay - thus the target age group of these games would be quite low.
All these impressions rise a question in me: how much does Construct speed up game development- with regard that old 8 bit games were also created by 1-2 people ? Today's standard programming languages would be more time consuming for sure, but perhaps Construct needs almost the same quantity of efforts if it has born so few games.

As for the existing tutorials, the most popular game types - platformers and top view shooters - have entry level tuts. How nice it would be if the community would somehow organize (and donate?) the creation of more advanced level tuts. If only the gurus, who have already created games, helped somehow the community to cover this gap. This would speed up game creation in the long run and thus CC could have marketing products in the most beloved genres sooner. And if CC has good finished materials then it also has a good effect on C2 advertisement.

Good luck to the team, and fun to the fans.
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Post » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:13 am

@ldmn   Today's standard programming languages would be more time consuming for >>sure, but perhaps Construct needs almost the same quantity of efforts if it >>has born so few games.

It impossible to say how much Construct speeds things up because there are so many variables. I can speak from experience in that I entered a Ludumdare competition a few years ago and made a game in Python/Pygame. I spent about 15 hours coding a game. The result is something I have since made in Construct (not the same game but something similar) in about 4 hours. This was a simple game and I had roughly equal skill in regards to Python and Construct.

I'm more of a tinkerer of technology myself and always fascinated with latest music algorithm or socket library which is probably why I haven't made more of a full game....other people's reasons will vary.

I have always wondered why we haven't seen more finished polished games but the obvious answers are money (if Construct Classic had been commercial then they could have advertised like crazy, hired more developers/testers, made all sorts of accessible tuts and videos,fancy website, paid game competitions, etc) and time (CC is very young and only recently in the past year has added more features like better Python support, networking, better bug fixes, etc). I think most people were waiting until 1.0 to make that big game... Now they can since 1.0 isn't coming and there is just CC.

I wonder if I sponsored a 2 month, $5000 game challenge if a cool game would result. Not saying I would or anything...maybe a $100 buck challenge
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Post » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:31 am

[QUOTE=ldmn]I don't know how many options, behaviors of Construct are generally used in games, but rarely used ones - like RTS bahavior - shouldn't get so much attention from developers, methinks. Rather, I would advise for C2 to aim for stability, but with less options. Thus perhaps creating big games wouldn't be a pain, and we could have some games for marketing purposes sooner.[/QUOTE]

That's where construct two is already at. C2 is far, far more stable than CC was at this point in its development. With more development time, it can be both stable and have the same number of options!

[QUOTE=ldmn]All these impressions rise a question in me: how much does Construct speed up game development- with regard that old 8 bit games were also created by 1-2 people ? Today's standard programming languages would be more time consuming for sure, but perhaps Construct needs almost the same quantity of efforts if it has born so few games.[/QUOTE]

That's really not a correct way to think about it. As scidave said, there are many variables that contribute to how long a game takes to make, such as:

- The scope and complexity of the game
- The number of hours a person is able to put into development each week
- The number of people working on the game
- If they know how to properly use the tools they working with
- If they know how to program/design software properly
- If there is multiple people, if they know how the work as a team so work progresses smoothly
- If they know how to properly make a game - making bad design decisions will make it take longer to redo them, or having an inefficient workflow will make things take longer to make
- If they have the determination to push through when it gets difficult
- How perfectionistic the people are

It goes on and on. My experience:

- Making one of the most difficult genres, an RPG
- Not working on it full time
- Making it almost entirely alone
- Didn't know how to use the tools properly when I started, resulting in the game taking more than a year longer than it needed to with thousands of events more than the game needed
- Had no idea how to program or design software properly
- Coded some features that ended up being unused

If you take a look at the credits of games, there are usually a ton of people there even for simple casual games. These are seasoned professionals who know their stuff and even then it still takes many, many man hours for them to make a game. A lot of us here are in the hobbyist number of hours even if we want to make commercial games at some point. A lot, maybe even most of those same people are trying to do the work of an entire team by themselves.

TL; DR: games take a long time to make, and in my opinion, the better you know how to use Construct, the quicker Construct makes it to develop a game.
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Post » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:37 pm

Thanx Scidave, quite reasonable and understandable it is what you say. I agree with you, I also have Python/pygame experience and CC was much quicker in doing the job, although it created also errors, which I couldnt correct. But in the long run CC should be quicker and more productive.

Arima, thanx for detailing all those variables of game creating, nice to see so many factors together.

But, what you say about the credit of games is not relevant for me and for CC, I think. As a possible target for CC, I was talking about 8 bit programs, which I played some 20-25 years ago, like Manic Miner, Green Beret, Pyjamarama (ok, but not Last Ninja) etc. These is the right category for CC, and these are the simple games what I miss very much from CC creations.
I began to do some platformer remake, but CC placed errors I think in my game (my sprites were teleporting weirdly), for which I also asked forum help in vain.

But is it only me, who wants to make 8 bit remakes? Everyone develops some gigantic game?ldmn2011-08-18 18:38:57
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Post » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:27 am

there are games, you just need to fish around a lot, and there are games that are simple looking as well. The thing is, people don't pump out games like a factory and construct doesn't even have a HUGE number of productive people using it. Construct is young, and a lot of people are just playing with it to have fun and learn, not to work on serious projects from start to end. i'm sure there are a ton of half finished games people have made so far that are awesome, but it takes a lot to go from half finished to finished, and generally people don't post their incomplete work.

Event's definitely wont limit you, i made a 3d game with animation and an editor using only events to pretty much prove that fact.QuaziGNRLnose2011-08-19 06:31:32
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