Disappointed over bad communications!!!

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:30 pm

Having dealt with thousands of bug reports over a period of years, I have come to have the approach I do because it is by far the most efficient way of resolving issues. I have eventually realised that a significant part of the process of dealing with bug reports is teaching people how to write useful bug reports, allowing the reported problem to be solved as quickly and effectively as possible. Lots of beginners print screen an error message and report it, and it is literally impossible to do anything about it. Another very common case is they carefully write up a list of steps, but don't share their .capx. I follow the steps (which can sometimes take a while, especially if there are vague bits which I get past by trying different combinations of interpretations) and it turns out they forgot a step which the original .capx they used did, and was the real cause of the problem. If I had the .capx, I could have solved it immediately. This kind of thing is not useful to anybody: it wastes developer time, and makes it take longer to get user's issues fixed. Unceremoniously closing the issue is the quickest way to get people to respect the guidelines, which helps everybody.

Everything in the bug report guidelines is from this kind of thing happening again and again and again and again and again, until I draw the line and say I will outright reject any reports that do not follow the given requirement. And it still keeps happening. Yes, I can see that if you are a new user, you come along and spend some time carefully writing up a list of steps but don't provide a .capx, and then your report is immediately closed, you might think I'm being cruel or something, but experience has taught me there is about a 50% chance I'm not going to see the problem. Given there are over 4000 bug reports and they still come in fast, this can turn in to months of wasted developer time which could be spent on something more useful like developing new features, and the reporter could take some simple steps to help us help you effectively.

The bug report guidelines are the things you need to do for a software developer to usefully and quickly investigate your problem, so please take them seriously.

Also if you buy Microsoft Visual C++, I don't think you'd expect Microsoft support to help you debug your C++ apps for free - although they (or someone else) might offer a paid service for that - but they would address reasonable bug reports. Similarly I don't think it's fair to expect us to solve the event problems in your projects. When it comes to bug reports, as I've mentioned large projects are not even useful. In general, the larger the project, the less likely it is to be a useful bug report. If you can't reproduce the problem in a new empty project, it is probably not a bug (another point with years of experience behind it). This makes the copyright/not-sharing-my-work issue irrelevant, because I don't want you to send me your whole project anyway. (With one sole exception: performance profiling - but most bug reports aren't about that.) This is also industry standard. I would not expect Microsoft to fix a C++ compiler bug by sending them the entire Construct 2 source. They would require that I reproduce the problem in a minimal program before they could investigate. Then I also don't need to send the C2 source code anywhere, and they can fix the problem more quickly.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:47 pm

Not sure what Microsoft does for Visual C++. On the other hand, I've sent my project to Unity before and while they don't debug your project, they replicate the steps you provide in your project, and determine if the bug is your fault or not. And I don't have pro. They also recommend a minimal project but won't just dismiss it if you don't do that.
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Post » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:01 pm

Juryiel wrote:Not sure what Microsoft does for Visual C++. On the other hand, I've sent my project to Unity before and while they don't debug your project, they replicate the steps you provide in your project, and determine if the bug is your fault or not. And I don't have pro. They also recommend a minimal project but won't just dismiss it if you don't do that.

The Unity team has 200+ people, it's like comparing China to Sweden :P
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Post » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:08 pm

ErekT wrote:
Juryiel wrote:Not sure what Microsoft does for Visual C++. On the other hand, I've sent my project to Unity before and while they don't debug your project, they replicate the steps you provide in your project, and determine if the bug is your fault or not. And I don't have pro. They also recommend a minimal project but won't just dismiss it if you don't do that.

The Unity team has 200+ people, it's like comparing China to Sweden :P


Of course :) I think that was my whole point, that Scirra may not have the support staff / structure to deal with all its customers :D Maybe something worth for them to invest in.
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Post » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:00 pm

Trying to debug someone elses work is frustrating at best, especially if its undocumented
Functions and event sheet includes spread out over multitudes of layouts, hidden by groups, and events that are only describable as non linear.
The phrase "help me help you" comes to mind.
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Post » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:55 am

tl;dr

Juryiel wrote:Of course :) I think that was my whole point, that Scirra may not have the support staff / structure to deal with all its customers :D Maybe something worth for them to invest in.

If you expect more (or "better") support and Scirra hiring ppl to support you and your projects, then you have to expect higher product prices (of course, one has to cover the cost). But if the product gets pricey, you start complain on the price, because the product hadn't changed that much? (look at GameMaker, up to 800 USD!)

I like the idea of asking some of the mods here to contribute, either pro bono or for some bucks and the reputation. Might help to filter out the real C2 problems.
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Post » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:05 am

dripple wrote:tl;dr

Juryiel wrote:Of course :) I think that was my whole point, that Scirra may not have the support staff / structure to deal with all its customers :D Maybe something worth for them to invest in.

If you expect more (or "better") support and Scirra hiring ppl to support you and your projects, then you have to expect higher product prices (of course, one has to cover the cost). But if the product gets pricey, you start complain on the price, because the product hadn't changed that much? (look at GameMaker, up to 800 USD!)

I like the idea of asking some of the mods here to contribute, either pro bono or for some bucks and the reputation. Might help to filter out the real C2 problems.

You are talking like they would still be a garage devs. I believe they are more then enough capable to finance couple more workers.
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Post » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:16 am

irbis wrote:You are talking like they would still be a garage devs. I believe they are more then enough capable to finance couple more workers.

From what I've read, Ashley is the only one who works full time on C2/C3. Tom is dealing with the Arcarde and some ppl help them running their business.

And, to be honest, this is a good setting for a smaller company.
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Post » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:22 am

irbis wrote:
dripple wrote:tl;dr

Juryiel wrote:Of course :) I think that was my whole point, that Scirra may not have the support staff / structure to deal with all its customers :D Maybe something worth for them to invest in.

If you expect more (or "better") support and Scirra hiring ppl to support you and your projects, then you have to expect higher product prices (of course, one has to cover the cost). But if the product gets pricey, you start complain on the price, because the product hadn't changed that much? (look at GameMaker, up to 800 USD!)

I like the idea of asking some of the mods here to contribute, either pro bono or for some bucks and the reputation. Might help to filter out the real C2 problems.

You are talking like they would still be a garage devs. I believe they are more then enough capable to finance couple more workers.


They, uh, have -

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Post » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:12 pm

GREAT! Best news in ages, i hope he/she is a code wizard, doesn't need sleep, and has great idea's !
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