Disappointment and obstacles

Chat about anything not covered in these forums, but keep it civil!

Post » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:25 pm

Adobe Air ehh?
Somebody tell Facebook to get on that right away.
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:24 am

All browsers on iOS aside from safari use the web view - which is basically a crippled version of safari that doesn't have JavaScript optimization, so everything that uses JavaScript, like c2 games, is much slower. Same thing with a web app saved to the home screen.

Also, remember that mobile devices are nowhere remotely near as powerful as desktops. They have very little processing power and memory in comparison - even if you were coding in raw assembly, there's just some things they cannot do. AFAIK, iOS devices can't handle textures above 2048x2048 and start having to resort to tricks to stitch large images together, an example of which being how Safari is known to either reduce the resolution of images or not load images at all that are too tall, which sounds like might be happening in your case with the background. You might also be asking too much from the CPU, via too many collision checks or physics or something.

You also might be having overdraw problems, as the graphics card can only calculate so many pixels per second. Many devices are only able to draw each pixel on the screen three times per frame at 60fps - and that's only fully opaque ones, transparent ones require more calculation. Fully transparent pixels in a texture count towards the pixel fill rate, too - they also are processed by the gpu.

There are ways to improve memory use and such: I suggest start by reading this: https://www.scirra.com/blog/112/remember-not-to-waste-your-memory
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:09 am

Arima,

Time to give up on the, "The mobile devices are nowhere near as powerful as desktop" excuse. For an amazing example of how much power they have, check out Epic's Citadel app in the App store.stevefromio2014-01-14 02:12:21
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:24 am

@stevefromio: Yeah, mobile devices can do 3D render. Great.
Nevertheless, Arima's right, those textures aren't bigger then 2048X2048.
It's even unlikely that there are this size.
Also, it's indeed a nice tech demo, but it's not a game. It doesn't have IA calculations, collision checks, etc...

Mobile devices don't have as much power as modern desktop computers, it's not an excuse, it is a fact.
Boundaries are being pushed, sure, but still if you want to make a game for mobile, design it for mobiles. If you want to make a game that take advantages of decent modern desktop computer, design it for modern desktop computers.
Those are different beasts with different limits and ways.
Once again, read the blog article Arima has linked at the end of his post to understand a bit more about all this.
New to Construct ? Where to start

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Please attach a capx to any help request or bug report !
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:21 am

Ipad4/iPhone 5s: 77 GFLOPS
Geforce 9800gt: 504 GFLOPS
Nvidia TITAN: 4,500 GFLOPS

As Kyatric said, it's not an excuse, it's a fact. My graphics card from almost 6 years ago is still slapping some of the latest tech in the mobile world silly in terms of performance, and the latest desktop cards are running circles around my 9800gt. Most people don't even have the latest tech, either, often still using things like the iPhone 4S which are significantly weaker.

It is possible to get good looking graphics on mobiles, but concessions must be made: lower resolution textures, less intense code, less polygons, ways to fake higher level features at reduced image quality. The citadel demo was restricted in the same manner. Believe it or not, 2d games can actually be harder for a gpu to render on mobiles than 3d because of the fill rate, which is one of their weak points. If you have two sprites overlapping each other, then the area that is overlapping is drawn twice. That's overdraw. When you've only got 3 passes of the screen to work with, it's very, very easy to go above that. Also, transparent pixels are more expensive to calculate, and while 3d objects are generally opaque, images often have lots of transparency, making it worse.

I'm not trying to claim the situation on mobiles for c2 is perfect (referring to cocoonjs here, I haven't tried crosswalk for android yet). A perfect example is the lack of memory management - if the game described by helena was coded natively, the texture could be split up and it could be coded to load the necessary segments of the background and dump the unneeded ones, keeping memory use low. As with everyone else - finding ways to work around the hardware limits to achieve a certain effect.

If cocoonjs implements memory management, then at least the very tall background could be implemented.Arima2014-01-14 04:58:30
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:46 pm

You are both fundamentally wrong. Obviously mobile devices (even laptops) don't have the power of most desktop computers, but that is not the point.

The point is nobody using HTML5 and C2 is going to hit that limit. HTML5, and the JavaScript C2 produces isn't going to win any awards when it comes to performance.

Kyatric, the missing gameplay isn't a concern. The stuff you mentioned rarely takes 3% or 4% of most games.

Again, it is an excuse. When you are able to program something like "Infinity Blade" on a mobile device, then you can start talking about limitations.

Although I doubt anyone would be complaining at that point. It is the not the limitation of mobile devices, but the limitation of HTML5 that is the problem.stevefromio2014-01-14 14:51:08
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:38 pm

Why are you here?
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:00 pm

Why are you?
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:50 pm

I am here because I thought it would be good platform for me, because I do not work well with normal typing syntax coding.
I do not know where else to go to make ios apps and out of the three software I reviewed I liked Construct2 best so I bought a license.

But I also like that I can make for web so it is a good fallback, even if it is just for fun.

I now understand HTML5 is not exactly the gaming platform. Hey, if I did not know about this I would say "HTML5?" Isn't that HTML, hypertext markup language? Website pages? haha. ;)

But apparently it is possible to make games using HTML5 or Construct2 would not exist, right?

And apparently you should be possible to make stuff for iOS or else there should not be any exporters, right?

Maybe it is a matter of 1. optimizing, optimizing, and 2. wait for wrapping software to catch up and optimizing THEIR code too.

Oh, nevermind. I am happy you got into a discussion in my thread. So I am not just whining for no reason. But of course, I am doing the classic newbie mistake: see "make your own games", come of beautiful ambitious ideas of making games, trying to make it, only to get the hard truth thrown at you for your too ambitious ideas. ;)

Now back to my project.
The thing is that even if I removed the background (entirely gone nothing left, not even the object itself), and just it be empty layout, albeit still long strip, the game is ssllooooow at same fps rate in cocoon. So I start to wonder what's causing it to be so slow. Is the
bullet behaviour causing this maybe?
I have checked the event list for "every tick" and there's none.
Or would it be all the collision checks?
The "splash" animations every time the block is hit and some more similar stuff?

I wish I had a separate monitor because my 5:4 ratio monitor... I can't see the debug window AND play at same time. ;) I can change windows, and see, but not see in action. hahaa.

Now I have shrunk the level strip from 20 to 10. So it is 7680px high.

Funny thing is that in my normal firefox browser on my desktop computer, when I had one solid 1024x15360px background it is less "choppy" than when I removed that and placed 10 pieces of different backgrounds @ 1024x768 each. (level shrunk since that). Or maybe it is because of my addition of ice blocks and its snowflake particle effect and animations..

If it is the block's fault then I had an idea that may require quite a lot of "coding" but is to store all the block positions in array (or something suitable) and load the level's blocks when you arrive to that level, destroying everything else. But of course, I have to update the array when player destroy blocks, because my game allow to go back in levels as well as forth... Do you think this will improve the fps? Right now I only have 5 screens out of 10 filled with blocks, though..

Or somehow, set the blocks outside the level area to not be checked for collisions.. hmm.

Back to making ice block animations.... Yet more.. lol. This for the "gleaming" effect once in a while..

And CTRL-C saved me.
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Post » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:51 pm

@helena - sounds like you've walked right in to the mistake outlined in that blog post Arima linked to (Remember not to waste your memory). A long epic background might be really cool, but mobile devices often don't have much memory and you have to be smart about how you use it. If your images are over 2048x2048 that can also severely impact performance on some devices, and missing images are probably out-of-memory errors. There are good ways and bad ways to design mobile games; desktop PCs can generally muscle through anything at all, but mobile devices can't, so you need to be careful how you design your games and test regularly on mobiles from the very start. If you share your .capx I could comment in more detail about what might be slowing it down.

@stevefromio - if you're so convinced that HTML5 sucks, perhaps you would like to select a different tool for game creation, and post in their forums instead.Ashley2014-01-14 18:52:37
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