Don't hate the player hate the game!

Discuss game development design and post your game ideas

Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:27 pm

In most games, if player lost, it is his fault not the game's system! I searched for the measning of this qoute then I I got game idea. Why make the player wins? Why most player lose? We can make it the game's system fault! :D
It is a fun idea , thus it can make people feel good since it not there fault, it the game developer fault! :lol:
So what do you think about this game concept?? :?:
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:47 pm

If you design a system that makes it so that the player loses because of the system, the player will hate your system as unfair and unbeatable. It will be considered a shitty/poorly/badly made game and won't gain success.

On the opposite, if a system is so well made that any failure from the player is due to her own fault and she knows it, then it will strike the player as fair (Super Meat Boy, Dark Souls, ...).
A game has to be challenging but offer a fair chance of being beaten, that's what will make it fun.

If it's either not challenging enough, or not fair enough, the game is likely to be considered not fun enough by players to be played/appreciated.
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:12 pm

I get it now @kyatric ! Well I just liked the quote & thought it may linked to game development ( since it has the word "game" in it) but it was just a suggestion :)
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:46 pm

Isn't this quite what I Wanna Be the Guy and the rest are all about.
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:02 pm

Katala wrote:Isn't this quite what I Wanna Be the Guy and the rest are all about.


This is by design an unfair challenge, but it is known as a fact, if someone plays it, he knows what he is getting into beforehand.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:08 pm

@Katala: Intersting point.
For sure IWBTG and other masocore games (yeah I learn that term from @Kayin's twitter account today, let me show off a bit :D ) do rely on frustrating the player and conscious unfairness.
Nevertheless, what is the percentage of players who actually do play those games on the long term and enjoy them ?

I mean I truly enjoyed watching the I wanna be the guy: Gaiden stream at evo 2012.

Nevertheless, as a player, I did not went past the second level and haven't really tried that hard either. It's time consuming and far less fun to me to play that type of game.
Still I wouldn't consider it a bad game because of the design/level analysis I made of it, and the fun I had watching the stream but I know it's definitely not the type of game I enjoy playing once I'm confronted to the released version (which is different from the one on stream).

It's too challenging and unfair to my patience :)
Perhaps if I took the time and decided that "I wanna be the guy", I could go further. Truth is I never had the determination to do it yet :P
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:31 pm

@Kyatric I also enjoy to watch someone mastering it but I'm not sure I ever even tried it myself. But I did have patience to finish Castlevania 3 which doesn't really come even close to this masocore gategory :)
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Post » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:14 pm

Some games live from being extremly hard and unfair...like flappy bird for example!
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Post » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:06 am

Naji wrote:In most games, if player lost, it is his fault not the game's system! I searched for the measning of this qoute then I I got game idea. Why make the player wins? Why most player lose? We can make it the game's system fault! :D
It is a fun idea , thus it can make people feel good since it not there fault, it the game developer fault! :lol:
So what do you think about this game concept?? :?:


This reminds me of a good little article by Day[9] about how games are ultimately about "creating inconvenience" for the player, but making that inconvenience fun. Worth a read!
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Post » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:03 am

Recently I've remembered of some games of my childhood.

The first was sonic chaos on the master system, which was actually too easy, since the bonus stages let's you skip the level you are in, while giving you lots of points, lives, and continues, and since it is the way to have the good ending, you have to litterally skip a good chunck of the game to truly win.... plus it is too easy since you have so many lives, even when not going to the bonus oevels, there is only 2 challenges in the entire game, the mecha green hill, and the last boss, which is fine, but really past the surprise of the first play, there is not much to do, except trying to win without losing a single life.

On the other end, another easy game, Castle of Illusion on the master system, was a really nice game, it starts easily, and never becomes unfair, just a well done game, easy but much more enjoyable, little puzzlesalong the way, appealing graphics, bosses that are fun, I have no grisp with it, it is easy but does not feel to easy.

The third is THE one, Wonder Boy III: The dragon's trap, it starts easy, then becomes pretty hard but everything is here to let you become better and stronger, and I never feel cheated even when the ennemies are becomming a pain (lionman stage, the ninjas that are just high enough to shoot over your shield... that was a sadistic trick)

As for trollgames (I am calling them like this since deep within your heart, you can heard them screaming "U MAD BRO!?LAWL"), it is really line being whipped in public, it is bad, it is not pleasant at all, but some people love this and will scream for more.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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