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Post » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:34 pm

Yes me too, because it's free. But I wouldn't spend more money in a similar program because of a couple of improvements.
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:31 am

It being free is not the only reason construct is better. If they were all free, I would still use construct. There are many reasons why construct is better than both MMF and GM, and even ignoring that, the cheapest license for construct is cheaper than MMF, about half the price (if you make over 20k with a game made with it you can afford the 149 version), not to mention if you can't pay for it there's still two free versions which are better than GM's free version, and MMF only has a 30 day demo.

I suppose I could get into specifics as to why construct is better, but every time someone does that someone else claims we're 'bashing' other software, even when taking care not to use insults.
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:59 am

I'd like to hear your reasons why you think construct is better than mmf2.
I disagree but I think this could be a very constructive discussion and give ashley and the others something to think about and correct in construct 2.

Here's some of things that I think are more important:
Mmf2 has countless extensions construct doesn't (among others, a online/networking plugin), is much more stable, the community is much bigger, the games made with it run perfectly with no compatibility problems in 99% of the time, but in the other hand lacked construct's awesome rts behavior, shadow casting and I preferred construct's way of handling variables.
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:23 am

(only glanced through the past two pages of posts when writing this)

Arima said Construct 2's free version will be better than GM's free version. However, you can actually sell GM Lite games.

Also, as for the whole "But Construct doesn't use scripting so it's easier," I never liked that argument at all. For anything complex, using Construct will be difficult and complex, just like with any other program. Sure, Construct may be better or easier for this or that, but the events vs scripting argument is weak. What's to prevent someone from saying "Scripting is more powerful than events so GM is better. After all, most serious game developers use scripting"? Are "events" so different from scripting anyway besides being somewhat more visual? You still have to learn plenty of syntax and rules for Construct and know what different commands do, whether or not you have to type out a piece of code for them (which you often have to anyway). I think it's time for a new way to explain/argue for why Construct is easier or better other than "events vs scripting" itself. (I do think Construct is better than GM, I just don't like the reasoning. This isn't really related to C2 specifically.)
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:29 am

There's no reason not to discuss the differences, or the closed source business, but frankly its getting old, and not really adding to the thread subject.

Obviously they're committed with trying to go commercial, so we might as well try to make the best of it.

Perhaps a new thread about how both programs succeeded, and how they failed?
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:41 am

First up, a disclaimer since someone is inevitably going to read this post and determine that I'm 'bashing' other programs:

If one car is faster than another, it is not bashing the slower car to point that out, nor is it calling it a bad car. That also does not mean the slower car is worse in every way, nor that anyone is stupid for using it. I, and a lot of us here, have no problem other people using or liking other programs, but some things are simply measurable without being an insult, like the speed of GM's runtime versus construct's. Other things, however, are more of a personal preference. This post is not an insult to users of either said programs, nor do I think either of them suck. I simply think construct is better.

There. Now, reasons construct is better than MMF (This assumes C2 developed to at least C1's completeness level):

- Event system is far better. It has things like sub-events, which are much better for branching code, readability and organization, a code toggle on/off system to easily deactivate code, it's easier to work with (no bizarre limitations like you can't scroll halfway down an event, so events longer than the screen weren't usable in any way that I could determine), more picking options and more powerful (does MMF have the ability to do functions and forget selected instances in the process to work with new selected object lists mid-event and in the middle of an expression? If not, then that too)
- Working with multiple instances of an object is easier and makes more sense, no need to use any of that confusing 'spread value' stuff
- Built-in behaviors work properly (don't tell me I'm bashing here, everyone I've heard talk about them including longtime fans of MMF agree that the behaviors in MMF need some serious work and have for a long time)
- It's runtime (exe) is faster than MMF
- More than one pixel shader can be applied to an object (last I heard, MMF restricted you to one)
- Families to easily have one bit of code control multiple different objects
- Event sheet includes so every time you want to edit your game's code you don't have to copy and paste your code to every single level again and again (yes, I know you can use one frame for all of your levels by loading a level at the start of the frame with a custom level editor, but it's still handy in many ways regardless, not to mention it's nice that it doesn't require you to take that route)
- No limitations on the number of variables
- Can name the variables so you don't have to try to remember what each one does
- Intellisense for faster writing of expressions
- Better project hierarchy, makes it easier for multiple team members to collaborate (XML format, folders with animations and such)
- Configurations system for easy demo/different platform versions in the same project
- Construct is cheaper, about half the price unless you're making over 20k, at which point you can afford the 149 version, which is still significantly cheaper than MMF2 developer
- There's two types of free versions if you really don't want to pay and aren't making money from games created with it. MMF has no free version, only a 30 day demo

It's a bit hard to explain overall as well, but after using MMF and having it impede development again and again, construct was a breath of fresh air that works the way I wanted MMF to. I felt like I was fighting MMF. Construct is a joy to use. That's an important factor when developing a game, which requires many, many hours of effort.

Why it's better than GM (I haven't used GM nearly as throughly, so I don't know as much on this front):
- Doesn't require learning a language
- Its drag-and-drop system is useful past the basics, unlike GM's (even fans of the program agree that to really use GM you have to learn GML and I have never heard anyone suggest otherwise, even in communities like TIGsource with a lot of GM users)
- The exe runtime, will be much, much faster than GM. 0.x is already drastically faster and C2 should be at least as fast or even faster. I've heard from people that construct's runtime might actually be able to handle as many as 100x the number of on screen sprites
- Behaviors for quickly adding functionality
- Superior layout/room editor (you can rotate objects and zoom)
- It's much, much easier to understand than GM (my opinion, but I've heard it echoed elsewhere. I tried using it and it simply didn't make much sense. Construct did immediately).

Both:

- Much better frame rate independence via delta time
- MUCH faster updates and bugfixes, more actively developed
- In my opinion, construct has a much better workflow and is both easier to use and makes far more sense than the others

It's been a while, so some things might not be relevant anymore (did they remove the limit on the number of variables?) and I apologize if I'm listing anything that has since been updated.

P.S. Sorry about that Mr Wolf, I didn't realize you could sell games made with GM's free version.
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:20 am

I agree with pretty much everything on that list.

Edit: Eh nevermind I need to quit talking shit about MMF :mrgreen:
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:27 am

Can't have a CS2 release without the bashing, huh :P

Okay, then, I've to remain true to my title of the veteran bugfinder...

I attempted to import numerous sprites (256 of them), so I decided to import them directly into the .capx. I open the file with 7-zip file manager, dump the whole lot of images (tile-1.png to tile-256.png) into Textures folder, then edit the .caproj file to include sprite objects.

However, I get the following error whenever I try to open the project in C2:
Failed to create file '\\?\D:\Users\Miha\AppData\Local\Temp\cap230F.tmp\Textures/tile1.png' for extracting archive'

Two obvious errors here... the foreslash vs. backslash, also omission of - in the tile-1.png. I've tried renaming the file to tile1.png, etc., to no avail.
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:41 pm

[quote="MikeD":2vzsv4nt]I'd like to hear your reasons why you think construct is better than mmf2.
I disagree but I think this could be a very constructive discussion and give ashley and the others something to think about and correct in construct 2.

Here's some of things that I think are more important:
Mmf2 has countless extensions construct doesn't (among others, a online/networking plugin), is much more stable, the community is much bigger, the games made with it run perfectly with no compatibility problems in 99% of the time, but in the other hand lacked construct's awesome rts behavior, shadow casting and I preferred construct's way of handling variables.[/quote:2vzsv4nt]

The extensions is something we are really excited about in C2, allowing Javascript extensions opens the door to millions of web developers out there, it really is an accessible way to write extensions (hell even I can write them!) Expect me to be making a lot of them at some point.
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Post » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:08 pm

Arima i agree that Construct has a much nicer editor than MMF2 and some of your reasons but some of your reasons are also not that good. I still use MMF2 almost daily and know for a fact that some of your listed reasons are wrong, i don't want to turn this into a Vs thread but just correct you for some things and i will also explain why:

[quote:3j2dnfkg]- Working with multiple instances of an object is easier and makes more sense, no need to use any of that confusing 'spread value' stuff[/quote:3j2dnfkg]

There is now a for each extension, not built into the system like Construct though but that's not much of a problem really. There are also other extensions which are good for this and spread as you say although that can be annoying but it works well once you know how to use it.

[quote:3j2dnfkg]- It's runtime (exe) is faster than MMF[/quote:3j2dnfkg]

Is there any examples or comparison tests of this available? If you were comparing C1 with the regular version though i am sure that would be true and maybe for MMF2 HWA also but i have never seen any actual examples of it.

[quote:3j2dnfkg]- Families to easily have one bit of code control multiple different objects[/quote:3j2dnfkg]

Possible and are called Qualifiers, maybe a borrowed construct idea because they are basically the same.

[quote:3j2dnfkg]- Event sheet includes so every time you want to edit your game's code you don't have to copy and paste your code to every single level again and again[/quote:3j2dnfkg]

You can easily load multiple versions of the app and copy event groups, no problem at all really. Also there is Behaviors which are basically sub event lists so you can make a load of events and simply copy the object once.

These options basically allow exactly the same thing in a easy way, having includes seems much nicer though but it's very much possible to do the same thing in MMF2.

[quote:3j2dnfkg]- No limitations on the number of variables
- Can name the variables so you don't have to try to remember what each one does[/quote:3j2dnfkg]

There is various extensions for this, it's much nicer in Construct but still not much of a problem for MMF2 either though. Since variables are linked to objects you can also easily have empty storage objects and name these, without extensions Construct has a nicer way of doing it though but not much of a problem either.

You can easily name alterable strings and values also and since there is Behaviors for each object you could also extra events or stored notes for each also.

[quote:3j2dnfkg]- There's two types of free versions if you really don't want to pay and aren't making money from games created with it. MMF has no free version, only a 30 day demo[/quote:3j2dnfkg]

There is actually a free version that can make flash games but that is TGF2 and does not show the true power of MMF2, still it is free though. I don't consider that a good point though to be honest because there are many commercial apps that don't have a free version, some don't even have demos either.

I won't go into too many reasons but i actually like MMF2 more than C1, i find it to be much better with coding options like LUA, DotNet, C#, C++, AS3, Javascript, OpenGL, Python (C1 also has though) and others also. Another reason is as other have said it has lots of great extensions, they are often very stable also and if there is bugs usually fixed fast. The main reason is MMF2 seems much more stable than C1 and not many crashes but if there is quickly fixed and i would rather just work with something i know to have less problems.

Don't get me wrong think C1 is really great which is why i am here now and i also think it has some good improvements over MMF2 like with the editor, multiple effects and built in behaviors etc but in general i don't find that a big enough thing to make me stop using MMF2 and replace it with C1.

Construct 2 is different though, since it's now closed source commercial, no exe and still beta i wouldn't compare it just yet and there is not that much point in comparisons. Development seems good so far though and if this continues i am sure it will be much better than MMF2 and GM also.

I know Clickteam and Yoyo games often talk of new runtimes and MMF3 has yet to show so it will be interesting to see what competition C2 gets later, there is also apps like Game Develop, Stencyl and maybe other new game dev programs also.
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