Feature: Multi-Layout Editor

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:58 pm

Fair enough, about the next generation; could you hold up a poll or something here on the forums or facebook to see what features and things are most wanted (besides this one) before its out so people don't complain about lack of features.

Yeah you have a point, it just an opinion anyway so freely disregard it.



About C3, any idea about a release date, or is it just in the idea stage at this point?
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Post » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:53 pm

Ashley wrote:It's probably not feasible within the Construct 2 generation of editor. I mean, the placement of the UI tabs in those screenshot mockups alone is not supported by our UI library, which is a big black box of another company's code that I'd prefer not to get tangled up in. I think the best view for this kind of advanced modification of the editor is for the next generation editor, which hopefully will support editor plugins, so third party devs can experiment with this level of UI modification.

BTW we would never publish a separate version of Construct 2 just because of a feature difference. We want one product with one codebase.

Every time I hear this, I weep tears of joy.

I hope this next IDE is as HTML5-based as the runtime.

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Post » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:02 pm

@Tokinsom , wow, these are great mockups! I wish these ideas were feasible.

@Ashley , what about visual guides at least. are those included in the black box? It would be great if we had at least that (seeing the Metroid Style mockup really opened my appetite)!
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Post » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:30 pm

There is another way to handle open-world/metroidvania style maps that hasn't been discussed much here. It is actually more versatile, too.

Basically...instead of using multiple layouts, one "super layout" or "layout grid" would load & unload user-defined chunks of itself based on proximity of an object (i.e. your player or camera). It'd be very similar to the existing collision cells, except it would manage layout data & objects.

That is more or less how JKB developed his world map for Megaman X: Corrupted. Here are some screenshots of his editor to get a better idea of what I'm talking about...
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2

As you can see in screenshot 1, the world consists of a grid of 320x240 cels. What's so great about this is you can move from cel to cel seamlessly, or add whatever type of transitions you want like in Metroid, Zelda, or Castlevania...it's completely up to you.

If you really want to push it...you could then treat these "layout grids" as individual layouts containing various areas in the game.

@Ashley do you think this might be more feasible with the existing architecture?
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Post » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:27 am

Glad to see my topic post is being used as a catalyst for @Tokinsom to convince @Ashley to make this :D
Would be amazing if he did.
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Post » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:06 am

@Ashley

Forget about a multiple layout editor for a second. What if you built a "Room" object into the engine? Imagine it acts exactly like a layout except in the way that it's not a actual layout but a space inside the layout. Sort of like a mini-layout, perhaps the engine could think of it as a sprite or tilemap. That way it could function nearly exactly like a layout except that it's not a layout on it's own.
It could have the follow attributes that are layout-like: Camera is bound inside them and cannot scroll out of them like a layout, they reset like a layout when the player "exits" / stops overlapping them.

That way we could have transitions like Tokinsoms Metroidvania simply by doing a "Set Time Scale to 0" and "Scrollx" event with a single detector instead of all the stuff we have to now with clamps, lerp, time scale, bullet behaviour, detector sprites and whatever else.

@Tokinsom
What do you think about my idea above?
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Post » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:18 pm

That might be even better because you have more control over the shapes, sizes, and connections of the various rooms. By giving numerous "room objects" the same ID, they could act as one, giving you something like this:

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(In this example the mouse would be the player. Highlighted rooms are loaded, non-highlighted are unloaded, black space is the actual layout.

You could still handle room transitions and camera stuff however you wanted, as this would merely load and unload parts of the layout based on their distance from the player.

Hell, this would be great even for large-level games like Megaman, Megaman X, Donkey Kong Country, Mario 3, Super Mario World, etc.

Video game levels are more than just big boxes with a bunch of stuff thrown in them. We need something a little more sophisticated here.
Last edited by Tokinsom on Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:29 pm

It's easy from the outside to see it as "just allow editing the joins of layouts". But the layout view has thousands of lines of code that assume there is only a single layout being edited, and the UI is difficult to change as well. I don't think this is feasible, it will have to wait.
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Post » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:35 pm

The latest suggestions would only use one layout. All we're asking for now is the ability to load & unload certain parts of a layout during runtime based on a single new object type. Is that really so difficult?

Edit: Could a 3rd party plugin be capable of doing that? Wouldn't it just parse layout data and create/destroy parts of it based on x/y coordinates?
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Post » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:49 pm

That might be even better because you have more control over the shapes, sizes, and connections of the various rooms. By giving numerous "room objects" the same ID, they could act as one, giving you something like this


@Tokinsom
Glad to be of use.

@Ashley
Basically they would be room objects (like sprite objects, they're imported into the layout) within the one layout that reset objects overlapping them (so they act like how a layout resets) and set their local time scale to 0 when the player stops overlapping them / exits (so objects inside the room stop working to save memory etc). Thus emulating the usability of layouts while containing them inside one layout so they're usable with the current generation of Construct (2).

Would that be better/easier to make for current gen Construct rather than layout editor?
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