Feature: Multi-Layout Editor

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:44 pm

Of course there will be a few kinks to work out but I mean...either you fix a few bugs with this in C2 and no one ever deals with them again, or countless people attempting open-world games run into countless problems and try to fix them on their own every time...and likely fall flat on their faces because it's not easy.


One problem I can think of that the Room object would fix theoretically would be this;

A. Memory overload for all the different regions(Downtown, suburbs, forest, ghetto, industrial, water, park, subway....). there is just no way to handle this especially when you then also need to add sounds that are also specific to regions. forest sounds are not needed in the subway... etc. one big layout make this not really feasible.


Because room objects would effectively turn off all other parts of the layout, memory overload and performance issues on extreme layouts would be a thing of a the past. But that's an educated-guess at best.

I think that at best, it works as it's supposed to provided its well thought out and implemented, at worst it has the countless problems you mentioned and have more work to do.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:47 pm

Technically those other areas wouldn't even exist until you're in or near them, so it's not an issue. You can still use multiple layouts, anyway.

For example, a Zelda overworld could be one layout with many room objects...but a dungeon or castle is another layout with its own room objects.

As for memory/filesize, the editor I linked to earlier broke it up into chunks. Notice each cel has "Mines_14, Mines_15, Mines_16, etc." over it...each one is a separate file. Not sure if Ashley wants to do something like that though, especially since the cels/rooms in this case would be whatever shape or size the user wants.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:06 pm

Also other pros are that developers could see a vast majority of their playable game in fewer or even one layout, I can also imagine there being less loading screens to visit since it would be possible to put the game on one layout.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:14 pm

I can see how this would be useful but can certainly live without it. I'm sure there are higher priorities on the list.
Last edited by hundredfold on Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:47 pm

You can say the same thing about Construct 2 itself and a lot of other things, no point in saying it though.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:06 pm

Well, I hear what you say Nesteris, but I guess my contribution to the discussion is as valid as any. If we all kept quiet Ashley would have little idea what features are important to those of us who are using Construct 2 and discussing potential developments in this forum. I'm just getting used to the software and am noting my own list of features that I could really do with and this one would be way down my list.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:30 pm

Ok so start a topic requesting them. There is no point in downplaying ours just because you don't find them particularly useful. (Gee a new feature or two to make entire genres more feasible in C2, who needs that?)

I mean, I don't care one bit about any mobile/browser/marketplace stuff that makes up at least half of C2's updates but I'm not complaining. Loads of people will greatly appreciate that stuff and I might use them somewhere down the road, so whatever.
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Post » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:42 pm

Thanks for the suggestion Tokimson. I'll do that soon.
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Post » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:21 am

The magic of arrays and strings may solve some issues.

An array can hold strings of "room" information. Object id's locations, size scale rotation, you name it. Anything an object can do can be stored as a string and interpreted with comparing those string values.

Rooms can be loaded and unloaded as needed.

Player.X>500 && Player.X < 1000
Load room[2]
parse that string data as needed and viola. You can create those objects. Do with them as needed. destroy them. have at you.

Easy? No. I doubt it. Possible? Sounds like it, I cant see why it wouldnt work.

I prefer that type of system with array based room data over what is being proposed.

I feel too much control is lost if we define rooms and let construct do magic. How can I determine logic happening in this non-loaded room? What if I want that room loaded without being inside it?

What happens when the player is in room 7, pushes a button and you need to make a change in room 2. But room 7 and room 2 have no reason to be both loaded?

These are things only array based/ string based level design/rooms can overcome.
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The issue seems to be a visual and code/data disconnect. People want an easy visual, yet high level of control. At least not from what I have read and see. What is proposed does not make this possible.
An easy visual solution just cant give the control needed for the instances where the proposed tool would even be useful. Not in a basic sense of keep these rooms loaded. Don't load these rooms. All of it is one layout, etc etc. It seems to miss the whole point of wanting rooms, and I cant see it being useful from what I have read so far.

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If this "room" object instead stored all room information in a way that we can access it anytime, and visually place the objects into it, maybe this would work. Nothing would need loaded, but we would have easier access to the "room" and object data than if we use arrays/strings ourselves.
Essentially turning the "room" object into a visual array.

And any object in the room, gets placed into that "room" objects events. An object would act like a behavior to that room.


This is just the ramblings of some1 up too late.
And the proper people to be notified: @tokinsom @ashley @nesteris
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Post » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:14 am

@Tylermon
First of all, this would not replace anything. It would be an addition. You'd obviously still be free to build rooms using Arrays, nobody is going to stop you.

I feel too much control is lost if we define rooms and let construct do magic. How can I determine logic happening in this non-loaded room? What if I want that room loaded without being inside it?


No control is being lost, Room Object would NOT replace Array or anything else. It would simply make things easier.
We have player platform behaviour in Construct 2 yet it's amazingly simple to remake and highly customize, but it's still there.

What happens when the player is in room 7, pushes a button and you need to make a change in room 2. But room 7 and room 2 have no reason to be both loaded?


What happens is what you want to happen. Theoretically that part of the layout is reset and frozen in place using a time scale, so if you used a global variable or object you could change what you wanted. It's still part of one layout and the same engine. Construct 2 isn't going to be turned into something from The Hills Have Eyes.

If this "room" object instead stored all room information in a way that we can access it anytime, and visually place the objects into it, maybe this would work. Nothing would need loaded, but we would have easier access to the "room" and object data than if we use arrays/strings ourselves.
Essentially turning the "room" object into a visual array.


You can access it any time, you just described how we described it would work.
Simply the Room Object is a re-sizeable box or rectangle that has a local time scale inside the layout and has the ability to reset the part of the layout it overlaps along with the objects inside of it (unless they're say, global).
This way you're able to emulate the function of separate layouts without needing to load said layouts, so essentially the entire game could potentially be loaded into one layout yet not use the parts that aren't needed in order to save on memory and attain better performance.

E.g
You have a layout that has 4 room objects.
Player starts in room 1, kills enemies in said room and moves into room 2. Upon exiting room 1 and entering room 2, room 1 resets and sets it's local time scale to zero making the enemies respawn in place and keep still until the player re-enters it at which point the time scale is set back to 1 and it plays as if it was another layout that had reset.
What happens when the player is in room 7, pushes a button and you need to make a change in room 2. But room 7 and room 2 have no reason to be both loaded?

Player goes to Room 4 and finds a locked electronic gate, goes back to Room 3 to press the unlock electronic gate button.
Events could be set up like usual e.g.
Player Overlaps Gate Button | Set Gate Button Animation to Pressed
Gate Button Animation "Pressed" Is Playing | Set Electronic Gate To Animation "Unlocked"

So it's really that simple, at least potentially. You could set it up way more complicated or badly evented, use global things. It's only as hard as you make it out to be.



I hope this cleared up some things for you.

People to be re-notified: @Tokinsom , @Ashley
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