forum getting mean to newcomers lately

Chat about anything not covered in these forums, but keep it civil!

Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:41 pm

[quote="deadeye":15iqbvph][size=200:15iqbvph][color=#FF0000:15iqbvph]clusterfuck[/color:15iqbvph][/size:15iqbvph] on the new guy.[/quote:15iqbvph]
:lol: That's a funny word.

anyway I don't think the forum getting mean to newcomers
It is just that when they post with out any research or
post in the discussion part of the forum and argue badly with people
who don't see things your way.
People gets :evil: .
(I mean really, that new guy he seriously brought anger and frustration out of them)
That why when I see thing getting heated up I through in a joke or two
to cool thing a bit.
Use these guys :D to keep thing form sounding to harsh.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:49 pm

I think generally this forum is a welcoming and productive community - I try hard to keep it that way and prevent it becoming your typical internet furnace of flaming, while also allowing people to be liberal in what they say. It's a difficult (even contradictory) balancing act, but I won't stop trying, I'm sure it's possible. Most other forums I know either let the flamewars rage (even with admins joining in!) or simply shrug and delete anything borderline, and I don't like those extremes.

Also I don't buy for a second any of this "he started it" rubbish. If someone is rude to you in real life, the best way to deal with it is keep cool. Think what a third party impartial observer sees - if they see two people shouting each other down, they don't care for either person. If one is getting angry and rude and the other is politely and cooly trying to sort things out, you're obviously going to side with the calm one. It works in real life, and it works on a forum too. I don't see why so many people don't get that and still try to fight fire with fire.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:12 pm

[quote="Ashley":1iu3pjzn]Most other forums I know either let the flamewars rage (even with admins joining in!) or simply shrug and delete anything borderline, and I don't like those extremes.[/quote:1iu3pjzn]

I think there should be a [size=150:1iu3pjzn][color=#800000:1iu3pjzn]Flame Wars! [/color:1iu3pjzn][/size:1iu3pjzn]thread where people fight it out.
It could be a Pay For View type of thing.
Come on!
I know your out there!
Anybody!

:| :| :|
:| :| :|
:| :| :|

Fine, be that way.

[quote="Ashley":1iu3pjzn]
Also I don't buy for a second any of this "he started it" rubbish. If someone is rude to you in real life, the best way to deal with it is keep cool. Think what a third party impartial observer sees - if they see two people shouting each other down, they don't care for either person. If one is getting angry and rude and the other is politely and cooly trying to sort things out, you're obviously going to side with the calm one. It works in real life, and it works on a forum too. I don't see why so many people don't get that and still try to fight fire with fire.[/quote:1iu3pjzn]

Only if they know. :twisted:
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 pm

the "nameless" thread was one catalyst that made me write this, yes. but honestly its been a general vibe im getting from here lately. ranging from these flame wars to more subtle "help" threads, where it seems like the "helper" is spending more time expressing how easy everything is, if they would just accept scirra as their lord and savior blindly, rather than the 2 seconds it would take to whip up a cap file, demonstrating everything and post it along with some pointers to the wiki and the platform school.

its all shifted from a "let me show you an easy way to do that" feel, to a "whats wrong with you? dont you see how easy this is?" feel.

its not everyone, not even the majority, but given how scarcely i read through some of the forums lately, its enough that i noticed it, so id imagine weve turned off some potential users.

this is the one package where you can answer someones quesstion within 5 minutes with an actual working example. thats what makes people flock to construct. im just saying, construct is further along than ever. nowss the time where we can really show this thing off. dont take it upon yourselves to turn the community into an elitest member's only club

be helpful in help threads, and if someone hates math too much to achieve a certain thing, or someone has a misguided feature request, or criticism for construct, be civil, or leave the thread alone. youre not impressing anyone. this is not the place for your power trip. there are only a handful of peopl who are really godly with construct, and theyre usually not the problem. leave the godliness to construct itself, and help the newcomers find the light
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:21 pm

[quote="lucid":3e8ex630]its all shifted from a "let me show you an easy way to do that" feel, to a "whats wrong with you? dont you see how easy this is?" feel.[/quote:3e8ex630]
I think that's an important one to remember, I myself often forget what it's like to start using a program and not have much idea how to get going with it, and not to assume they know certain things. If anyone posts any really basic questions though, just send them to the tutorials/FAQ page.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:23 pm

i love these forums in general. Most people are helpful. I cannot stand people talking down to "noobs".

:)
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:51 pm

In my opinion, whipping up a cap to show how to do something isn't really the best way to do things in every case - in fact, I think it could make things worse. As the proverb goes: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Really, quite a lot of questions boil down to the fact that person asking the question doesn't understand game logic. The first thing in learning how to make games is to understand how they work and the ability to break things down to their most basic components. When you understand what makes up something, you can start working on it and looking for ways to achieve something. At this point if you face a problem that you can't seem to solve and ask about it on the forums I'd say it's okay to answer it via a cap or comprehensive description - after all, the asker presumably knows what he wants to achieve on a basic level, just not how to do it.

Let's take another recent example - the question "can you make teleports in Construct?" Applying some deconstruction here, you can see what "teleporting" means: moving object from point A to point B instantly. Now if we think about what things do in games in general? They move from point A to point B. In other words, if you can achieve anything where something moves from point A to point B in Construct, yes, you can have "teleporting functionality" in Construct. It doesn't take much thinking to figure something like this out - we should encourage people to think.

So I guess the bottom line is that we should encourage newcomers to learn game logic before asking questions about how to make X in Construct, because if they don't understand game logic the answer will most likely not be of any help to them.

Personally I don't even bother to answer topics made by people who seem to have no motivation to do anything themselves at all; maybe if no-one answered an obvious question, maybe they could think for themselves for once. I guess I'm a bit mean in that way, but honestly, even if you're new to something doesn't mean you couldn't try learning for yourself. It's not like you're going to kill yourself by doing so!
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:11 pm

I agree 100% with everything Daiz just said. I'm a big supporter of people who try for themselves. You're much more likely to get help fixing something than you are making something.

I still bust out with full examples from scratch every once in a while, if I have nothing else to do, but for the most part I think people should at least try to make what they need, even if they fail utterly. It's okay to fail, in my book. Failing teaches much better than just being handed the answer.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:43 pm

i agree aswell, but some people just seem to keep asking for things they don't need to do what they're asking, they try so hard to make the devs improve construct from what it already is, without realizing the feature would actually be two steps back.

when i first joined these forums i remember being quite defensive and aggressive at times like alot of these users at first, and made alot of requests for funcionality similar to what ive seen in mmf, but when i finally LEARNED most everything i needed to know, i was able to understand my mistakes, and i actually took kindly to advice given to me. people should just not post massive text walls in a discussion forum about something they barely understand, and then try to say a whole bunch of problems that need fixing according to their point of view, and react negatively toward anything DISCUSSED with them.

i really don't see much elitism at all going on our side, i see it moreso on their side, in fact i've only seen users react in this aggressive way, to users who were acting like that towards them as well. and this is hardly anything new in these forums. Anyone remember our friend from blizzard? or the original Kodu construct battle along time ago. once again, its not that its new users in general, its just a larger proportion of fiery users have posted lately.

the user base of construct is expanding from people who were well versed in mmf and similar game making tools, who already knew programming with events, to more and more inexperienced users, who've never once used these tools. and this undoubtedly leads to a shift in the balance of the forums, because a ton of people are constantly posting these kinds of beginner things, and many more of them are taking less and less time to listen to what were telling them. im not saying all of these aggressive users fall into here (nameless poster), but it has something to do with it in the bigger picture of everything. i myself knew how to use mff and i still acted stubborn and rude when i first joined.

We need more tutorials, sigh.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:11 pm

That may all be true, but the point is to not put on your sassyboots and stomp around the forum. Just keep your cool. If you get upset and can't post without keeping your cool, then let someone else deal with it.

Remember, you're under no obligation to make people see your side of things. If they ignore your cool-headed and logical debate, and persist in arguing about silly stuff, just let it go. It's not like silly stuff is going to get put into Construct because you failed to convince someone that we don't actually need Blast Processing or whatever.
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