Frankly, Whats the point of c3?

Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:55 am

Rayek wrote:Another approach is to award loyalty: For example, Unity subscribers have the option to own a perpetual license of Unity after two years. This also mitigates the problem of not being able to open your files later.

I call this a "real" subscription - after all, a subscription gives the subscriber something in return to own (even though it might be in the long run).

Adobe's and Scirra's rental models, however, leave you standing with nothing once you stop paying the rent. A marked difference between how Unity treats their customers, and how Scirra would treat theirs.

Aside from the fact that Unity also offers a completely free, fully functional version (well, aside from the dark GUI, I believe :D ).


I like the loyalty idea. Hell I'd happily sign up for 5 years if it meant that after those 5 years I was guaranteed a perpetual license for the software at the state it was in when my rental ended. My gripe with the subscription isn't the price, I think it's pretty reasonable, even cheap. But I have huge issues with the lockout. It seems unnecessary - if there was a technical reason eg it was tied up in online infrastructure it would be a different story, but from what I can gather it seems to just be a business decision. One that is really bad for users. With a couple of tweaks here and there Scirra could probably make the subscription model work and save a chunk of their clientele and I think what will tip the scales will be whether or not we're locked out of our own projects. There are many companies out there who do subs, or paid updates with some tact and respect for their users.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:24 am

faulknermano wrote:But, why stop at one licencing method? I find a maintenance plan a more friendly way especially since C2's tradition has been regular updates. For example: Pay a yearly maintenance, get updates. If you stop paying, you don't get upgrades but can use the last version you paid for. If you want to take up the maintenance again, it can be taken up again for the full price or some other price you deem fair.


Rayek wrote:Another approach is to award loyalty: For example, Unity subscribers have the option to own a perpetual license of Unity after two years. This also mitigates the problem of not being able to open your files later.


signaljacker wrote:I like the loyalty idea. Hell I'd happily sign up for 5 years if it meant that after those 5 years I was guaranteed a perpetual license for the software at the state it was in when my rental ended.


Great suggestions. I'd love to hear Scirra's opinion on these. They were posted in several topics, but as far as I can recall, none of these got replies from Scirra, so I'm curious what's their opinion on these.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:33 am

Colludium wrote:I wonder if any of the c2 dev team use a browser based code editor.

Heh, yes actually, my daily driver is VS Code which is built on Electron. It's a fantastic editor. I last used Notepad++ which is a native editor, but I hardly use that any more, VS Code is much better.

As for perpetual licenses, I don't think it's really a change over the C2 model, it just postpones it. We could similarly end up working to maintain customers who last paid years ago, and it's doubly painful if they're doing things like using the app build service heavily which has on-going running costs.

I am in favour of something for users who have previously had a subscription and want to return for some quick maintenance on an old project without going in for a full renewal. We're looking in to our options for that. I am aware this is a significant consideration for many before they start using it.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:58 pm

Ashley wrote:...We could similarly end up working to maintain customers who last paid years ago, and it's doubly painful if they're doing things like using the app build service heavily which has on-going running costs.


Then, make the build service and anything cloud based that costs you an optional paid service for the end user. For everyone else is redundant to rent the software just to be able to fiddle with their projects, especially if they don't get much revenue out of it.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:46 pm

The build service is just one aspect of many that I picked as an example. There's a number of other aspects like the Scirra Arcade, multiplayer signalling, the hosting of C3 itself, other services we haven't announced yet, and other services we'd like to add in future. Also there's the aspect that we don't charge per-exporter, and don't do regular major version updates which we charge again for, so the fact we're still maintaining the software, fixing bugs and adding often significant new features for customers who bought it one-off maybe 5 years ago is also an on-going expense and service we provide. We've never done the pick-and-choose thing (e.g. you get all exporters bundled in the basic license, whereas many other companies charge you repeatedly for each), and similarly we just want to put everything in the one option.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Multiplayer

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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:21 pm

Ashley wrote:I am in favour of something for users who have previously had a subscription and want to return for some quick maintenance on an old project without going in for a full renewal. We're looking in to our options for that. I am aware this is a significant consideration for many before they start using it.

Thank you for taking the time to read those suggestions. I'm looking forward what you'll come up with. I'm sure that will help a lot of potential users to make peace with the subscription model.
Personally, I'm hoping for lock-out of cloud services (to spare Scirra from additional server load from non-paying users) and updates (users will need to update to keep up with the evolving C3 and HTML5, and also for getting bug fixes) till the users renew their subscription, but letting them edit and in some form, export their projects. But that's just my opinion.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:06 pm

Ashley wrote:we don't charge per-exporter

How would that work if you wanted to, with html5?
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Zebbi wrote:
Ashley wrote:we don't charge per-exporter

How would that work if you wanted to, with html5?


Perhaps Ashley is hinting at "other" in house exporting that Scirra hasn't announced yet?

Aren't you Ash....aren't you???? ;)

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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:59 pm

Ashley wrote:We've never done the pick-and-choose thing (e.g. you get all exporters bundled in the basic license, whereas many other companies charge you repeatedly for each), and similarly we just want to put everything in the one option.


Thanks for the above explanation!

Would you consider doing a different style of pick-and-choose, for different user bases?

For example, a "Tinkerers" package, with just the engine, upgrades, bug fixes, and a single exporter, for a lower subscription price? An "Independent" package, with all exporters, IAP, etc.? A "Studio" package, with the full monty? A "Classroom" package based on their specific needs?

The subscription model seems based on the revenue people generate; perhaps this can be expanded to include the different services people would use?

Upgrades can be offered, the way mobile phone companies make phone plans, for example (license upgrades for multiplayer, etc)
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