Frankly, Whats the point of c3?

Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:24 am

whoisda wrote:I have a similar feeling. I'm not against the pricing and the devs have plans to offer a desktop version later, but yeah, even though I like the features announced up till now, I was hoping for some advanced features (timelines, empty game object, parenting, etc.)

After praising C2 and trying to shove it to friends and employers, I feel I cannot stand behind it for much longer. I've actively started looking for a replacement. Not Unity but something similar, like Godot and Superpowers. I really really like the event editor and I don't think I can ever find a replacement for that.

I will no doubt buy the first year though to see where C2 is heading.

I do agree that if the event editor was a separate scripting language plugin it could be a popular alternative to something like blocky.


I used to send people to c2, but seeing as you have to preogram to make it do what you want anyway, I just tell them to learn to program if they want to make games.

I used to teach a c2 class for middle schoolers, it was a lot of fun. But at this point I wouldn't probably use it.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:34 am

Cryptwalker wrote:Off and on I've been trying to get myself to "like" Unity but each time....ugh......also recenlty trying out GMS2 and that has potential. But basically, nothing beats the simplicity and ease of C2 so far. Haven't tried the Fusion stuff yet though.


I felt like that for sometime- what actually got me there was developing behaviors in c2. I was forced to code in javascript to realize my game in c2. If I was going to do that, I would much prefer c#. Plus unity orients itself to coding where c2 didn't. Unity still seems clunky in comparison, but it takes much longer to learn and become effecient.

I really like the speed of most things in c2 though,
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:46 am

mumu64 wrote:Can I write in this topic one more concern I have?
I hope you will let me ^^

What if the price of the subscription (for hobbysts) goes up (with more than 50)?

Scirra Blog Post december 2018:
Happy new year everyone!
ps: price goes up from 100 to 250.


(I am not trying to set a negative vibe. I like C2 and Scirra^^)


And if you are already struggling at the tail end of a dev cycle, you have no choice. Its like @Rayek said, you have to be somewhat crazy to hitch your boat to a rental model, unless you are guarenteed to be financially sound. Most indies take a risk, most won't find success, but most also have money issues on their first few projects unless they maintain another job (thus increasing dev cycle time and cost of rented tools...

Once you hitch your wagon to c3, its hitched. I use c2 every now and then to look at and edit old projects, but don't do any real work with it, should I have to pay every month for that??? no way. That's like reading a textbook after buying it and then after a year not being able to reference it unless you pay more.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:50 am

blurymind wrote:
mumu64 wrote:Can I write in this topic one more concern I have?
I hope you will let me ^^

What if the price of the subscription (for hobbysts) goes up (with more than 50)?

Scirra Blog Post december 2018:
Happy new year everyone!
ps: price goes up from 100 to 250.


(I am not trying to set a negative vibe. I like C2 and Scirra^^)


When their deal starts sucking for you - it's very simple. Just vote with your wallet by not buying.
if the reason is the license model - not buy.
If the reason is the increased rental fee - not buy.

Simply doing that will cause the company to see the revenue going down, which will eventually force them to consider that it wasn't such a great idea to ask this from their loyal customers.
:)
Guys, in the end you have the power, the customers. If scirra broke your heart, you can break theirs too. Just spend your money and time on the competition - this will force them to compete more

I think that while they drive away alot of people, they will still make enough to keep this rental model. Thus why I will unfortunately no longer use or buy new products from scirra, but will continue to follow the forum and use construct2 once in a while for prototyping and such


They probably will still make enough... unless you can get a boycott. Make it pay once, you get it and the updates for 2 years... at which point you only get updates if you buy it again. This means you can still edit old projects without being locked into paying unless you actually need or want those new features. The rental model is unfair for most of us.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:53 am

DarkRoomGames wrote:Ah you never know how C3 will turn out later on down the road. C2 when it first started sure isn't the C2 we got now. I'm sure plenty more will be added in time.


Yeah, but in the mean time are you going to rent it assuming it will change? I kept with c2 because I had it on pretty good authority that if A then B. A happened, but B never did. Wait for c3 I was told, then B. Well, here we are and it seems like c3 still doesn't have B.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:02 am

digitalsoapbox wrote:The point is that tools which can run on tablets are aiming for the educational market, not professional game developers. I had some long, interesting conversations about the direction C3 is taking while at GDC and that's the conclusion which was independently arrived at by most everyone I spoke with. It is making itself the polar opposite of the "best 2D game development tool." Which is fine, if that's the tact Scirra wants to take, as it's their business, but it would clear up a lot if they'd just say that instead of announcing the porting of the sub-par image editor from C2 or...wait for it...rounded corners. Oh, and BBCode in comments, when the text & spritefont objects still can't handle multiple weights or colors.

While it's an impressive coding exercise to run a tool like C2 in the browser - and let's be honest, C3 is really just C2 with a few visual tweaks in terms of features, based on what's been announced - who in their right mind is going to work on larger games through a browser interface? Is anyone really supposed to be excited we now have to scroll to see all Function parameters? Now, if we could name the parameters, that would be a big step, but scrolling forces further mouse interactions (and no, tabbing to the next field is no better), which slow down development, especially if you're typically using hotkeys rather than slowly navigating through C2/C3's multiple popups that would have been better off being combined into the rest of the interface if there's some use case requirement that they remain separate panels at all.


I agree 100% - but from an educational standpoint.... I used to teach c2 to middle schoolers... I won't be anymore. If it isn't good for making games then it isn't good for teaching people how to make games. If it takes a boiled down event editor and simplicity to entice people into making games, I don't really want to be teaching those people... and will those people really stick with it? Will they ever actually make a game?

It'll be like using a baseball bat to teach historical saber. Not worth the time imo
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:00 am

ruskul wrote:Yeah, but in the mean time are you going to rent it assuming it will change? I kept with c2 because I had it on pretty good authority that if A then B. A happened, but B never did. Wait for c3 I was told, then B. Well, here we are and it seems like c3 still doesn't have B.


This.

I'm learning c# for Unity - which is an incredibly powerful tool and actually not that hard. I will likely continue to occasionally use c2 for game jams or to test concepts. The community is (was?) great, but I don't see the generosity of plugin makers continuing in the same way as they did before (I honestly think c2 would have died of it wasn't for rex, r0j0 and other plugin heros). Everything has a price for access now, so we'll see if people will hobby away to help scirra earn money on the back of their work. I wait to be proven wrong (perhaps in a few years c3 will be tempting), but in light of the lack of dev inspiring features in last few blog posts all of my previous excitement has died and been replaced by resignation.
A big fan of JavaScript.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:45 am

ruskul wrote:
DarkRoomGames wrote:Ah you never know how C3 will turn out later on down the road. C2 when it first started sure isn't the C2 we got now. I'm sure plenty more will be added in time.


Yeah, but in the mean time are you going to rent it assuming it will change? I kept with c2 because I had it on pretty good authority that if A then B. A happened, but B never did. Wait for c3 I was told, then B. Well, here we are and it seems like c3 still doesn't have B.

Nope. I'll stick with what already works for me, which is C2 and GMS2. Then again I don't like the idea of getting all hung up over one software when there are plenty others out there that can potentially fill my current needs. IF C3 becomes something useful to me later on then I will gladly use it at that time. Until then, it really isn't that big a deal for me to stick with what I already got.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:20 pm

ruskul wrote:And if you are already struggling at the tail end of a dev cycle, you have no choice. Its like @Rayek said, you have to be somewhat crazy to hitch your boat to a rental model, unless you are guarenteed to be financially sound. Most indies take a risk, most won't find success, but most also have money issues on their first few projects unless they maintain another job (thus increasing dev cycle time and cost of rented tools...

Once you hitch your wagon to c3, its hitched. I use c2 every now and then to look at and edit old projects, but don't do any real work with it, should I have to pay every month for that??? no way. That's like reading a textbook after buying it and then after a year not being able to reference it unless you pay more.

The word 'serf' springs to mind :P I know that's probably very unfair towards Tom and Ashley & crew but you know, that's the feel a subscription model brings with it. I think both Scirra and several others who argue for it are missing the point a little. It's not about the money.
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Post » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:10 pm

@ruskul Totally! And anyways learning programming becomes necessary if not almost mandatory to understand how more complex game mechanics can be done.
I'm an artist, although in the past I learned some C++. And recently I started delving into Haxe Flixel. Helped me to understand much more abstract logic.
So at the end Construct facilitates life indeed, and I love it for that, but you still require game logic to make it work. Is not that out of the box.

So switching to an engine like Unity, which anyways I've been using at work for years seems logic. I'm still hesitant about going instead with a framework like haxe because of the shader limitations. But I know there's Kha which soon will be able to output to Unity, so why not.

I'm still quite surprised that after all my messages, Scirra chooses to replies just those that praise them. Its rather lame for a company that supposedly support indies.
if for Scirra indies equals all the mobile clones then by all means.

Quite dissapointed
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