Frankly, Whats the point of c3?

Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:06 pm

I wonder if any of the c2 dev team use a browser based code editor.

I'm losing faith here.

So far c3 appears to be little more than c2 revamped into a browser, with a less intuitive save system, access to a scirra version of phonegap build (but no ipa export, so not as good) and a slightly tweaked UI for the 0% of devs who want to do work on a 5" phone screen.

Is the expectation that people will pay to do beta testing when it's released?
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:14 pm

Is the expectation that people will pay to do beta testing when it's released?


Of course not
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:39 pm

digitalsoapbox wrote:I see a lot of posts like these, and I'm left to wonder: is the issue the subscription model - which I know a lot of people aren't fans of - or the value proposition of C3 with a subscription model?

There's also a considerable number of users expressing their concerns who are afraid of getting their projects locked (with no editing) if their subscription ends.
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:40 pm

Tom wrote:
Is the expectation that people will pay to do beta testing when it's released?


Of course not


I guess that depends on what features will be available in the trial version vs the full version. If some features can only be accessed through subscription then those who pay for subscription will also , by default, be paying to do beta testing.
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:41 pm

We're not selling C3 during the beta
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:43 pm

@Tom - thank you - it was not clear (to me, at least).
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:49 pm

I believe that's called early access.
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:29 pm

digitalsoapbox wrote:I see a lot of posts like these, and I'm left to wonder: is the issue the subscription model - which I know a lot of people aren't fans of - or the value proposition of C3 with a subscription model?


There were those who pointed out that the nature of subscription/rental will prevent access to your work when the rent expires (ie stop paying). I have 2 different povs on this.

For example, I use Adobe CC for professional work (visual effects). But my work is essentially my studio's product for client's product. If any work is being held hostage by the rental scheme, it's not 'mine', as it were, but the studios and the clients. If they want to pay the ransom fee to alter the product after its first delivery, they're free to do it. It's the cost of doing business with Adobe. And the main thing is, at this point, it's not about the technicalities of file formats or back-compatibility; it's all about flow of money to the studio and to Adobe. As long as the studio has that flow, they're good. You can add to this that there's a certain volatility in working with 'media' projects, so that projects are done at a speed generally faster than development (in games, or other code projects).

The implications of a rental model involve _effective_ ownership: I can always claim IP but without a way to use it, that's a farce. And to me, the technicalities are just as important, if not more, than the monetary implications associated with subscription/rental. One forum poster asked: what's to stop rental prices from going up once subscribed? Then consider the fact that your choices are lop-sided: don't pay, and never be able to work on your project again, or pay up. That no-choice is the crux of my issue: it's not the price, per se, but it's that fact you don't have a choice once you start subscribing.

There are many ways to approach licensing and making money with a product as good as C2. I agree that a one-time payment was too generous for the kind of updates they were rolling out. I myself did the same thing for a LW plugin I wrote, and got major burns, so I get it.

But, why stop at one licencing method? I find a maintenance plan a more friendly way especially since C2's tradition has been regular updates. For example: Pay a yearly maintenance, get updates. If you stop paying, you don't get upgrades but can use the last version you paid for. If you want to take up the maintenance again, it can be taken up again for the full price or some other price you deem fair.
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:52 pm

faulknermano wrote:That no-choice is the crux of my issue: it's not the price, per se, but it's that fact you don't have a choice once you start subscribing.

Very well put.

I'd just like to add that from a fiscal point of view, at least the way I see it, a subscription model doesn't seem to be able to provide a more stable revenue than regular paid version bumps would. Say, a new release every three or four years. Most of the user base who stuck around for those three-four years would probably upgrade and pay full price again to get the new version. And there'd be no animosity about it or potential mass migration.

Of course you could flip that on its head: If users are willing to pay for new versions at regular intervals why do they have a problem with subscriptions? Functionally it's more or less the same thing! The answer is psychological, and rooted in faulknermano's point. People are willing to pay and pay again as long as they don't feel like they're being strong-armed into it. Which is exactly the kind of taste a subscription model that bars access to your work when it ends will leave in the mouth.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:30 am

Another approach is to award loyalty: For example, Unity subscribers have the option to own a perpetual license of Unity after two years. This also mitigates the problem of not being able to open your files later.

I call this a "real" subscription - after all, a subscription gives the subscriber something in return to own (even though it might be in the long run).

Adobe's and Scirra's rental models, however, leave you standing with nothing once you stop paying the rent. A marked difference between how Unity treats their customers, and how Scirra would treat theirs.

Aside from the fact that Unity also offers a completely free, fully functional version (well, aside from the dark GUI, I believe :D ).
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