Game engine/template sales

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:31 pm

I agree with the idea of a market place for assets (sprites, animations, audio, etc.). I do, however, see a problem with a template market: support.

Say I want a tower defense template, so I pay $10 and get the template. Now I want to make some changes because, being a generic template, it's not exactly what I need. Since I didn't code it, and it can be assumed I don't know how to code it since I had to buy it, will the developer provide the kind of support I need to add features, change logic, etc?

I know many of the developers here offer free help now on the examples and plugins they've made, and I know a lot of them would feel compelled to offer support on something they've sold, but how much and for how long?

If you look at it from the reverse point of view, I'm a developer who made a template that I am selling for $10. But now, since money has been exchanged, I am expected to support that template. Bug fixes are one thing, but what about modifications? How will I be able to work on my own games or create new templates if I am continually being asked to make modifications to my original template?

This is just my opinion, but I can see how that might spiral quickly out of control.
Don't see the fnords and they won't eat you!
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:52 pm

[QUOTE=Wastrel]Say I want a tower defense template, so I pay $10 and get the template. Now I want to make some changes because, being a generic template, it's not exactly what I need. Since I didn't code it, and it can be assumed I don't know how to code it since I had to buy it, will the developer provide the kind of support I need to add features, change logic, etc?[/QUOTE]

I guess this is where quality assurance comes in. I think if you release a template, like a space shooter or something, then it should be modular and heavily commented so you shouldn't even need to ask the creator about it. Have it cover horizontal AND vertical shmups, give it a bunch of enemies with different AI, include numerous weapons and explain in detail how each one was made and how to adjust them, etc.

The whole point of this template is to provide a good base to get started and build on, but most of all get you to a point where you understand how x type of game works so you are capable of doing your own thing with it. If it can't do that then it should be rejected..or something. A rating system would be nice.

Hm..that sounds more like an in-depth tutorial than a template. I guess there's a pretty fine line between the two. Blah.Tokinsom2011-11-01 14:02:19
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:53 pm

[QUOTE=tonycrew]I've been making games since the Commodore 64 version of Shoot'em'up construction kit came out in the 80's...[/QUOTE]

OMG! I so loved the Shoot 'em Up Construction Kit on the C64! If you think about it, it was pretty revolutionary for its time.

Man, I should dig out my C64...
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:11 pm

I've been using game templates since I was in my early teens and still use them today. It was a great way to learn and it helped me to get a sense on how things worked. That would later translate to me being able to roll my own if I had to.

Can I program from the ground up? Well yes, but why would I? At this stage in my life, I need to make a game and ship it. In my little world and to my clients, that is all that matters.

Everyone uses a template. The whole concept of OOP programming is all about reuse of code blueprints aka templates. Templates are guides that can help to move things forward much faster.

What I don't agree with is when templates get sold as the actual product. Unfortunately, I've seen that happen. That is the case with art as well.
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:28 pm

I'd just like to give a reality check here.
HTML5 will be the new Flash.
When I released Flash games they were free.
Revenue comes from Mochi ads and I would earn around 80 -120 from this, mostly earned in the first 5 weeks while the game was in the New Releases page.
Small potatoes right? But that is what we can all expect when our Construct 2 games are ready.
We are not in the same league as the software houses that charge for their games.
Have you seen the quality of games on Steam costing just 1.99? They are superb.
So why am I aiming to get HTML5 games out for free?
Check out armorgames. Check out the number of downloads in their "popular games" section.
Kingdom Rush (a tower defense game) over 12 million plays.
Gemcraft Labyrinth (a tower defense game) over 11 million plays.
That's big money.
Then you can have in-game purchases and so on.
So I can only say to people like Yann, the real world for gaming is quite hard as I found out myself the hard way.
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:14 pm

[QUOTE=VampyricalCurse] [QUOTE=Joshua]
So why is there an issue with using a template? Myself, I think it's a brilliant idea.[/QUOTE]

Actually I was talking about CREATING a game, using a TOOL. This...:

[QUOTE=MikeWhis]I just came from the Mac Gamesalad forums where you can buy templates for a few dollars and then just change the graphics, add levels, music etc.[/QUOTE]

...is not game making, someone else made the game for you, you are just editing it. The logic isn't yers, it's someone else's, sort of like reverse engineering a ROM of a game with a tool for such purpose. I'm against it, on a personal level, of course. But as long as this does not affect the support of the forums, I do not care. By making this a reality, I suppose I envisioned restrictions being put into motion on the forums. Like, they could restrict us on posting certain examples and such, so people will buy them instead. Plain and simple, that would really stink.[/QUOTE]
Using that logic, you could say that making a game in C2 is not actual game-making, because you are using code someone else made.

I just don't see the issue with using templates.

Look at Counter Strike. That was just a mod of Half-Life, and it was pretty much the same in concept; a FPS game. But it still became popular. Or how about DoTA? That's a mod off of Warcraft3, and the official website for DoTA gets over 20 million unique visitors per month.

Point being; the end user doesn't care how a game is made. They care about whether or not they enjoy the game. The only people who care about how a game is made are the game makers.

If you feel using templates is cheating somehow, and won't use them because of that, more power to you. I totally respect that. But don't expect everyone else to follow your moral code. That would be plain silly.

A marketplace for this forum would be a great idea. Yes, it can have issues and problems, just like everything else.

Ensuring that only quality items get into the marketplace would not be too difficult; like I said before, set it so that threads must be approved by a mod, and have the mod review the content being sold before it's put up for sale. That can be time consuming, but it's the only way to ensure only high-quality items are offered for sale.

The other option is to let the users decide what's good and what isn't. Obviously that can involve risk on the part of the consumer, so Scirra could require sellers to offer a refund policy.

Here's another idea; Scirra could sell advertising for threads in the Marketplace forum. Site-wide banner ads and sticky threads are possibilities.

Really, this could help Scirra get more cash for development, and personally, I'd like them to be as finically successful as possible, so they can keep making C2 better.

This is an idea I personally fully support.

However, this is Scirra's forum, and they can do what they want with it. I respect that too. If they say "no" to a marketplace for whatever reason, I'll respect that decision. Although based on their responses so far, I think we may be seeing a marketplace in the (hopefully) near future.

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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 pm

It's a cool idea. I never thinked about that.
Have some marketplace for construct templates?
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:53 pm

The thing is.

In my opinion, Construct 2 practically IS a template. For all sorts of game. That is what the behaviors are for. With just a little understanding of C2 (by following tutorials, looking at the examples, and having the gaps filled by the extremely helpful community), it is easy to make practically any kind of 2D game one could think of.

Tower defense... not that hard. If you really can't be bothered to learn enough about C2 to be able to use it to potential, then perhaps you should work with someone else who can design the mechanics, while you do another part. (not talking to you in particular, but... you know ;P)

On the other hand, sprite packs and audio are a good idea to sell, because these are much harder to make and you cannot make these within C2.
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:57 pm

There are allways the Artists and the Coders more or less categorized. What I mean is that Artists totally noob to ""programming" would probably like to buy/get some blocks that do something and Coders totally noob to art-ing would probably like to buy/get some graphics.

At the end I support such an idea for both cases hold true at some point.

Moreover I would like the idea of a "PLAY" link so games are hosted by Scirra and summed alltogether in this domain (ratings,comments etc). Look Stencyl, GameMaker, GameSalad. I have the conception that this is in a to do list but it's not yet..hm..healthy to do due to few games? Maybe I am wrong. Anyhow
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Post » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:10 pm

I think ultimately, whether it is a bad idea or good idea, the idea should still stand for those who seek game engines to dissect. If you're the type who are purists, then don't buy the game engines and make your software from ground up. No one is forcing to do so. If you're not a purist and would like to use existing code to help build the framework of your game, then go ahead and buy the game engine.

Reality check: whether something is a clone or not, doesn't affect you as a purist. You despise clones, no one is asking you play clones. What you don't like, shouldn't be the standard for others who want to buy game engines.

If your belief is that a C2 user shouldn't use C2 because s/he can't learn the application as well as one of the C2 veterans, then that is nothing short of being a C2 snob. What is the goal of C2? It is to help those who seek to make games without using programming knowledge. What is so good about C2? It's great because it allows programmers to improve the game's logic and structure by editing the code, WHILE at the same time still give non-programmers a way to make a game.

I know a lot of people who have a hard time editing photos and simple graphics with Photoshop - the every day 'newbies'. Does that mean they should stop using Photoshop and hire a professional? That doesn't make sense if you're a father of three, who wants to create a simple family web site. Templates, game engines, tool kits allow that.ginsengsamurai2011-11-01 20:16:57
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