Games made using behaviors = boring and unrpoffesional?

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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:02 pm

Just an annoying thing that got me thinking, how many games of Construct are done using a behavior, this be platform, top-down or whatever that's built-in, do most prefer to use the event systems to make a full game as using for example the platform behavior makes your game boring and unproffesional? (sp?) (This game could have fun gameplay even tough it uses built-in behaviors)

This got me thinking, if so is it better to learn and use custom movement? even for making a classic mario-alike game with guns/shooting and so on? like Turrican or megaman gameplay to be sincere?

or using the custom movement system is better off for advanced movements? like jetpack games or Bionic Commando like games (BC uses a grappling hook to go to other platforms)

and how I read somewhere the platform behavior (idk about top-down or other behaviors) that it is fairly flexible, I don't know how much tough, also are the behaviors going to be included C2 or do we have to code/event our own behaviors the hard way somewhat similar to in game maker (tough I didn't find coding movements in GM quite hard but I still don't know how to use GM to full capacity yet, despite I have made 4 or 5 games with it, all are platforms and use the same engine/movement)

And one last note, is it safe to use 0.99.97? (I am using this version and am planning to make a full fledged platformer shooter, amongst other games maybe) for those who are using it how stable it is to make a full fledged game on Construct yet? seeing as this version might be the last release of C1.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:44 pm

I've always thought if people regularly code their own movements instead of using behaviours (e.g. a custom platform movement instead of platform behaviour) then the behaviours should be improved so that everyone uses them. They're not meant to be a toy for newbies, they're actually meant to provide functionality in a useful and accessible way. They should also be customisable enough that you can implement custom functionality to make your game unique and interesting, be that springs or reversing gravity or whatever.

If you have any ideas on how behaviours can be improved towards this - especially in C2 - do tell us your ideas! I was under the impression most people use the behaviours, even for full games - if that's not the case, I'd be interested to learn why.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:02 pm

Well i use the behaviors most of the time.It wont make a game boring ,There are many factors involved when a game gets boring.If you use custom movement then it's just like using GM's scripting stuff , different but still almost the same thing.For advanced movements where behaviors
just wont do ,Thats when custom movements comes in.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:06 pm

[quote="Ashley":21wesoo8]I was under the impression most people use the behaviours, even for full games - if that's not the case, I'd be interested to learn why.[/quote:21wesoo8]

Well coming from a guy who seen game maker games source codes and so on, most pro game developers (whether game maker, Construct and presumably clickteam game developmet tools(tgf2/mmf2)) I saw games in game maker that use their own code, different from the standard tutorial platformer as they make their own engine platformer, some similar to another platformer engine in features like basic movement, jumping, jumping over platforms and so on, so I thought if Construct users do the same method while the platform movement has essentially everything from jump over platform and such features, now if you're working on an advanced platform game with physics of being pushed around by explosion blasts or so on I see the use of custom movement, imo the platform behavior is just fine as it is, there are some bugs I noticed with it. (some frames don't work like the character keeps changing between jumping or standing when colliding with the floor and this was in 0.99.96, idk if it is fixed in .97)

Other then that, behaviors are useful to save you time and their properties like speed, jump height and such make it possible to make platformer games differ from each other imo.

@DravenX: Indeed, but double jumping shouldn't be too hard to implement by using platform behavior and variables or w/e it's called in Construct and no, using custom movement is different then GM scripting stuff, python feels like GML, custom movement is merely using event's.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:18 pm

Games made using behaviors =/= boring and unprofessional, at least to me.

I find behaviors to be a great method for avoiding having to reinvent the wheel. Behaviors are great for taking out chunks of workload and can be used for multiple purposes, like using RTS movement to make a point and click adventure game. Sure, behind the scenes it'll seem simplistic to other devs who get a look at your cap and may not impress them, but what really matters in the end is how well the game plays. The player isn't going to know whether you used preset behaviors or from-scratch scripting. They're just gonna know if the game plays well or not.

Nothing to fear from behaviors and plenty to adore, I say.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:27 pm

Why not split the behaviors up some? Like instead of a single platform behavior have the movements as separate behaviors like platform move left / right, or platform jump, platform double jump, platform super jump, etc.
That way you could build up a nice selection, and mix and match. That is if you can get the behaviors to "play nice with each other", unlike physics, etc.
Should be much easier to debug as well.
Who's up for a interpolated movement? :D
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:36 pm

[quote="newt":nnm21zsg]Why not split the behaviors up some? Like instead of a single platform behavior have the movements as separate behaviors like platform move left / right, or platform jump, platform double jump, platform super jump, etc.
That way you could build up a nice selection, and mix and match. That is if you can get the behaviors to "play nice with each other", unlike physics, etc.
Should be much easier to debug as well.
Who's up for a interpolated movement? :D[/quote:nnm21zsg]

The ability to get "play nice with each other" is the key comment. If you can do that great, but many times in Construct did Physics toss in a curve ball.

I like behaviors, They make prototyping, and simple games easy to create. Then again I am not pro nor a high end user. ...which may be a point to add behaviors.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:50 pm

Thing is, will the player ever know you used behaviors? If you just slap a behavior on something and toss it in your game then yes, they'll probably figure it out and it will seem 'boring and unrpoffesional', especially to other Construct users who know how the behaviors work. The trick is to modify the behaviors with events to the best of your ability, or mess with the settings so you come up with something more unique. The platform behavior, for example, is more of a base for your player or enemy, and not a 'package' so to speak. Once you add skidding, turning, wallkick, double jump, hookshot, and the like..no one will know (or even care) that you used a behavior. The only difference is you didn't spend hours coding ALL of it from scratch.

As far as .97 being 'safe to use'.. I'd say so, with careful planning of course. I wouldn't work on something too ambitious though, save it for C2 :P
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:08 pm

I think this train of thought is just another case of coding snobbery.

If a behaviour or plugin does everything you want it to, then coding it from the ground up is not only a waste of time, but goes against modern programming.
Code is meant to be reused as much as possible, and using behaviours and plugins is no different to using existing classes/functions and libraries, either as they stand or adding to them for your specific purpose.

At the end of the day, people are using programs like Construct to write games, and whether it's because it's faster to develop or because they don't know how to program at code level, there will be code snobs who will say that it's lesser than using something like C++, even though C++ programmers will be using built-in libraries and external libraries for most of their calls (which of course were written by someone else, lol)

If a game works well in both idea and performance, then it's irrelevant how it was coded.

Java used to be ridiculed years ago, but over the last few years it's been instrumental in the rise in mobile phone games, and it culminated (in my opinion) in a game like MineCraft showing just how irrelevant a specific language is.

Just remember, generally, if someone is saluting a specific language/tool to the degree that they ridicule any other method, then you can be sure that either:

a) It's the only language/tool they know how to use

or

b) They chose the hardest way to program something so that they could prove to themselves how great they were (which means they are lacking confidence in general).

As someone who started programming in 1982/3 (ish) and has used Z80 machine code through to C++/C# with everything in-between, and enjoy using software like Construct/Unity/Stencyl etc, I'd never judge a game by how it was written.
The final result is all that matters.

But then I'm not a snob in any aspect of life, and some people can't be anything else but a snob, lol.

Krush.
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:50 pm

yeah, I agree with the general consensus.
at first I had the same thought as you, when I first got here.
basically. Oh, behaviors are nice for people who don't have the know how to do this on their own.
but it's so customizable, there's really no reason not to use them. the result will be basically the same. you just save yourself alot of time, and have the convenience of instantly beginning on the things that will make your game unique. anything you can add to a platform movement you made from scratch, you can add to the object using platform behavior

alot of people tout custom movement as a way to make more unique versions of behaviors. I personally see it more as a way to make behaviors that don't exist.
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