gles.js - a lightweight WebGL renderer for Android

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:14 pm

@TiAm money is not the only reason for people to want an android version, sometimes the goal is just to have a larger audience (even though technically the html5 exports would work with that, but that is another story), also piracy issues could be taken seriously if they truly wanted it I think.

@szymek the curious thing is that C2 is made to have a code produced that is read with a player, and none of said players is reliable, I mean:

-canvas+ (cocoonJS only option at the time) went from "nice" to "meh." to "completely broken for 6 months" then "rebecame nice but we can see that C2 is not made to work with it as no large game can even starts up" to finally "we got deprecated? too bad we made it work now", nothing said they won't do it again though.
-crosswalk have a lot of features, but the chromium engine is a bad choice, heck, choosing one engine for the users in the end was not a good idea to begin with, and so chromium sometimes breaks retrocompatibility, and also some basic things like V-sync, in the end, it was a more clever choice than canvas+ at the time.
and the cycle can go on with this one too, nothing can guarantee that it would last for 6 months if it worked with C2, in the end, we might as well have none said "official exporters" and let the users find the gems themselves, sure issues can be corrected, but waiting for an eventual fix is simply not worth it.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:23 pm

@Ashley

my game was exported with CocoonJS and downloaded 15.000+ times. My Google Play dev console shows 11 (!!!) crashes for all these downloads.

so what is better: to have smooth game with CocoonJS and 11 crashes
or jittering crap compiled with Crosswalk?

I think I know the answer.

@Aphrodite

the problem is that Crosswalk is not reliable now; and people (including me) are tired waiting and
listening to excuses. But as I said many times: I hope that Atomic Plugins in @Ludei cloud service will add energy to all C2 Android apps.
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Post » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:31 pm

@szymek I was actually agreeing with that, exporters should be a choice of the user and only the user, as they evolve at a fast pace and can break easily, and each game may have different needs (some apps can work with the jitter but not without the xml, others will need specific features from ludei or fast pace action, etc..), also, that would make scirra not having to rely on one particular export that may (..will at one point) break for an unknown amount of time.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:59 pm

@Aphrodite

I agree. Someone needs DOM elements + 1 screen game = Crosswalk will handle this. Someone needs many layers, animations, smooth play = CocoonJS will handle this.

Anyway: it would be nice if @Ludei could contact Boris van Schooten, guy who made gles.js and exchange their experiences.

Because as for now they really care.

(ok, those guys from Crosswalk too, but they can't change Chromium)
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Post » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:17 pm

i think that the problem is both ways - in c2 developers and exporter developers (crosswalk/cocoonJS or whoever).

as goes for c2 devs - we work in an environment that has only events and no real programming, which on export creates two JS files and a bunch of XML from which we can't tell much if things go "as planned", therefore we must focus on massively optimizing the game in our event sheets, setting each sprites/elements/items properties correctly, makin' the game work flawlessly. also there's a lot of code that could be probably better optimized, but it's out of our scope since our env. doesnt' allow us to do so.

on the other hand - we have c2 / crosswalk /etc developers who work pretty hard on fixing bugs and stuff, delivering us new features and performance optimization, but in all their tries there always ends up some code that could be optimized better, fixed, and more, which leaves us hanging around not being able to do so ourselves (if you are in programming lands like me)

the point is - if scirra would waste a year for their nonbrowserwrapper just to bring us better performance, better, well everything i think it would be worth it and they could develop a standard in between all of these other wrappers. even at the cost of employin' a few new devs to help with that. gles.js just shows us that it could be done, pretty quickly and nicely. including other features is just "useless" - you need networking - audio - graphics and maybe physics as separate thing - and you got everything you need for your 2D game.
Sea Monsters template - Isometric
Also includes 40 pages PDF of optimizations and "how-to" for your games, and how the "sea monsters" template was built. Follow link for details :)

sea-monsters-templates-and-assets_t162705
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Post » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:42 pm

if scirra would waste a year for their nonbrowserwrapper just to bring us better performance, better, well everything i think it would be worth it and they could develop a standard in between all of these other wrappers. even at the cost of employin' a few new devs to help with that. gles.js just shows us that it could be done, pretty quickly and nicely. including other features is just "useless" - you need networking - audio - graphics and maybe physics as separate thing - and you got everything you need for your 2D game.


I think this is a great idea. No one understands C2 as well as @Ashley - if he could oversee the development of such a wrapper, it would make C2 independent of 3rd party software that may or may not work well with C2. Of course I'm no expert but it seems such indepence and reliability could launch C2 to the next level.
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Post » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:41 pm

This would require a larger team. This is one of those matters where the benefits have to out weigh the negatives. For a 1 developer team. Not going to happen. However if Scirra was a 20 developer team, and the cost benefits to develop an abstraction layer, then a per platform player. Then Scirra would revist the idea. However at this time. it's not practical for such a small team.

Want to see this happen. Release some massive games that are bringing in millions of dollars. This would bring the larger and dedicated companies With such a flow of developers and income flow. Then we would see the possibility of a player. until then. not happening.
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Post » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:04 am

How about if he used the cocoonJS or crosswalk team - whoever was closer to pulling it off? It might be best to integrate and improve on what's already been done instead of starting from zero. I'm not a techie though. Don't understand the "under the hood" part.
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Post » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:32 am

We wouldn't be having this discussion or many others like it if C2 games ran flawlessly in any browser. I love C2 and feel like I'm making an awesome game with it, I'm just hoping I won't come across too many obstacles as I publish the game and move forward with it. I feel like if Ashley did take more of a part in this particular aspect, it might make the difference. That being said, I'm a father and I realize what it means to be BUSY and only have so much time in the day.
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Post » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:29 am

C2 is only good for simple flappy games, and prototyping.

The reliance on third party tools that don't deliver quality performance, and the constant 'wait for things to improve' is a definate no-go policy for serious game development.

All the big game devs showcased on the home page, are experiencing real issues with C2, and/or will not use C2 for large projects again.

The only way this will change (imo) is if Scirra developes a large game with their own tool, so they can experince the real issues that game devs have with this awesome - yet severely shackled - tool.
If it can be done, someone on the web will show you how to do it!

CDASI Games Mentality Break Splat-a-bug FlapFleet Challenge
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