gles.js - a lightweight WebGL renderer for Android

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:50 am

@ alspal (comment missing? it said something similar to: it looks like HTML5 is here to stay for Construct though) Agreed, but there are other options within HTML5/JS/WebGL that are worth considering, including the very promising asm.js that Ashley said he'll likely work on implementing further into the engine.

It's likely that technology will continue to keep improving and "standardizing" according to the W3 HTML5 standard as well, but I'd rather put my money towards Scirra acquiring more control over (or direct dev time and support from) runtimes similar to CocoonJS and Node Webkit (or now: NW.js) than a new editor.

I feel like C2 can be so much more than just a tool for prototyping, making small games, and education. I don't know many arcade-style platformer games made in C2 that have 3+ hours of game duration so far (eg: not endless runner, but something that's large editor side and runtime side), but having made one with @damainman I can say that the editor is still bearable as-is. With a fully compatible and functional runtime C2 would be able to advertise making "advanced games" without exaggerating and then everyone will really win. I'd even love to pay a monthly subscription towards a "future fund" for Scirra which benefits everyone if it lets them get more control over the runtime.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:26 am

@newt

do you know any paid game engine with similar approach i.e. "you can make a great game but we give you 0 guarantee that it will work well. And if you will have any problems / bugs, then well, you can ask some 3rd company for help"? I don't know. That's why I'm using Construct 2 only because I have still hope for @Ludei team and their work. They got 0 dollars from me, yet they are trying to take some responsability.

@Jayjay

I'd rather put my money towards Scirra acquiring more control over (or direct dev time and support from) runtimes similar to CocoonJS and Node Webkit (or now: NW.js) than a new editor.


Exactly.
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:21 am

All of them. No one is going to guarantee that an engine will work on every system with blazing speed, let alone that you will be successful.
You're taking what they don't tell you, the stuff you can't do, and trying to blame them for it.

If you want to accuse them of lying, then by all means start providing the proof.

Can you make games that work on a large number of platforms, and devices with it? Yes.
Can you make every thing imaginable? Nope.
That part is up to you.
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:40 am

@newt It's not blaming Scirra for things that they didn't say and that I can't do, it's blaming them for literally the games they show on the homepage that are having performance problems, or games like mine which has performance problems on PC's with better specs than mine with the latest graphics drivers and etc.

It's when my game drops to 59FPS instead of 60FPS and suddenly characters are jumping higher or collisions are not being detected when they were at 60FPS.

Those are things that we've had customers show us, and we never saw in our own test environments. It's not that there is no proof, it's that I can't just hand a capx to Scirra because they might not even get to see the issue either.

We are all (mostly all?) game devs here and we know what is "impossible", that's not what we mean when we are upset with C2 advertising that we can make great games. It's that C2 can't make the most basic of arcade games from the 80's (most of my game is "jump and shoot! eg: jump, shoot, jump, climb a wall, jump, climb a ladder"), or a simple clone of Broforce, without extreme lag or random issues out of our control.

So in effect:

Can you make games that work on a large number of platforms, and devices with it? Yes, but they won't run properly most of the time once they get bigger than a phone game.
Can you make every thing imaginable? Nope, you can't even make the real games from the 80's/NES era.
That's thanks to the engine/runtimes not working properly.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:51 am

And by engine/runtimes you mean Chrome, or C2?
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:58 am

I would say engine meaning C2, there really seems like a problem with game logic going haywire if it's running slower than 60fps (perhaps that's boiling down to the way JS is though), but there's also issues in the Node-Webkit and/or Chrome as well.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:08 pm

If its C2, then its fixable, provided it can be identified.
If its Chrome, not so much.
Of course the big problem is that Chrome kinda covers both pc, and mobile.

We need alternatives to it, that I will agree on.
Otherwise you're looking at Cocoon and stripped down features, that only works for mobiles.
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:16 pm

@Jayjay (not a real solution, but if you're still having problems with skipped collisions like I had: I replaced every single one in Penelope with "is overlapping object - trigger once", it does the trick pretty well even at low framerates)
Image | @AurelRegard on twitter
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:35 pm

@Aurel Thanks! We actually did do that but found we also needed to have the "on collision" events left in as it didn't work on platforms. There's so much stuff I'd love to test more if I had the time to make more comparison/example capx and cap's, as CC tends to run much smoother than C2 at any framerate.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (but not play them)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:19 pm

I think, while there still is space for improvements in the C2 engine and also in the runtime enviroment (Chrome, NW), many problems are (from example capx i saw from others) user-made or because the lack of hardware support.

The biggest problems from user side are:

- overuse and misuse of Physics (really, many things you can easy code in 2 or 3 lines, but some developers use physics for everything / also mixing incompatible moving (like 8-direction) with physics) Advice: only use physics if there is really no way you can get the behavior you want in code.
- overuse of WebGl effects (effects are very heavy, try avoid them as much as possible, most things can be baked in the sprites/background images already)
- overuse of Particles (not much to say here, but keep in mind: a bad game doesn't get better because you use explosions with thousands of particles...)
- using way too big image resolutions (i remember this now, when reading another post) Always use images in the smallest size possible, specially for mobile games, because many small devices still have memory & gpu power problems with over-sized images. You really need a 2048x2048 background picture for your 2d retro platform game? I think not...
- logic errors/coding errors (like for example putting stuff in the system.every tick that doesn't belong there)

I don't say that everybody here makes this mistakes and that there aren't problems with the construct engine itself, but from what i experienced around 80 % to 90% of the users that have problems with their games, have them because of misusing the engine like i show above. The biggest selling point of C2, it's easy way to use and make games, is also the biggest problem of it, because many people without knowledge of the underlying technology or even coding are attracted and if something doesn't work like they want, for sure they blame the engine first.

There is another issue from the hardware side and this is lack of WebGl support from drivers (video cards)

Your shit little 80's arcarde game doesn't run well on your big pc or on your mobile, if your gpu doesn't support WebGl at all or good enough, and there is not much Scirra can do about. Because of this we have this big difference between all the devices we are testing our game. But because all GPUs made in present time support (hopefully) WebGl, this issue will vanish.
Last edited by Chupup Games on Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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