gles.js - a lightweight WebGL renderer for Android

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:32 am

Schoening wrote:@Gianmichele Haxe looks awesome! I have been thinking about it for a while.. I'm gonna try out the Three.js Haxe port and if that can compile that to more than JS I am totally sold on Haxe myself :D



Yeah, I have been playing with it for a while. Haxe in itself is pretty bare bone though. You're going to need a framework of some sort.
OpenFL is one of them but even though it mostly works, I don't really like the status of flux which it seems to be constantly in (Stencyl is suffering from that).
I'm using Luxe engine for now, which although is stil in alpha, is rock solid and with a super plan behind it (read editor and consoles too!).

Have a look here for more infos:

http://luxeengine.com/
http://snowkit.org

I'm really waiting for the day Scirra is going to embrace a technology like this.
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:17 am

Joining the C2 performance/rant :D

To put it simple, C2 is "Jack of all trades, master of none".

The good part is that more and more big companies are going for web apps (HTML5) ...The bad part is that no matter how much @Ashley struggles, HTML5 will not even be close to native for at least 2-3 years ... Is still in "development". At least on mobiles where performance is weaker. While C2 has great HTML5 performance (simple games works decent even on 1GHz CPU and 512MB RAM), you can't compare it with native performance.

Like others said, a simple Crappy Fird clone takes 30MB and uses 20~40% CPU and still has some frame drops... Angry Bots (default demo of Unity) takes 38MB, uses around the same % of CPU, no frame drops.

Eli0s's Fancy Benchmark runs at 6~9 fps CPU 25~40% in Chrome, 8~9fps CPU 70~90% in FireFox on my Samsung Galaxy S4 while Epic Citadel runs at constant 60fps on default and 30~55fps at Ultra High Quality (rendered at 1080p), and Angry Bots mentioned above...
So yeah, "HTML5 has close to native performance" / sarcasm

Maybe the CPU part is close to native, but the graphics part is not even close. I've stressed my device to test Epic Citadel and Angry Bots at a lower framerate, and guess what, at 15~20fps they still look more fluid, with no stutter then C2 at 45~50fps

Just a quick remainder that Unity also started to support HTML5 and works quite well (on PC), on mobile is not optimized at the moment ... I know that the grass looks greener on the other side, but in most of cases it is greener :(

So yeah, the same old rant :D But all of us were aware (or should had been) when chosen to work with C2
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:16 am

TiAm wrote:Anywhere I can find a video of a mid-range (under $250 unlocked) android device spitting out 60fps/1080p/1,000s of sprites in the context of an actual C2 game exported with the current crosswalk stable(CW10)? Because really, I would love to believe this is possible, but I just don't. Then again, I've been wrong before... :mrgreen:


I would like to see Flappy Bird clone in 60 fps, perfectly 100% smooth in Crosswalk:

crosswalk-performance-mega-thread_p901687?#p901687

3 sprites is not too much, I think...
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:43 pm

@Egyptoon i couldnt agree more, C2 or C3 needs a custom exporter for mobile.. There's no way around it, simple as that.
Right now perfomance is really bad on thirdparties, and lack of bugs control will ruin this in the long run.

If Scirra could find it in their heart to make it, im SURE it would be the absolute best game/app developing tool for mobiles, period.

@Ashley Maybe you can start a crowfunding project to hire a talented team, for a custom exporter for mobiles?


ps. The Haxe project looks awesome! - Scirra should consider something like that!
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:04 pm

Gianmichele wrote:@Ashley: I know you're probably sick of me pointing to this, but I would really love for you to read these two articles and then tell me if this is not a technology worth considering

Given the number of people here criticising us for "depending on third parties too much", I am extremely wary of adding any additional technology dependencies in to the C2 workflow. Even if Haxe works pretty well, we could still get shafted by compiler bugs, missing features and unoptimised parts that kill the performance. In particular I think Stencyl got burned by some of these types of issues. I'd rather stick with HTML5 - it may not be perfect, but it's improving fast and has some huge players backing it, such as Microsoft and Google.

Schoening wrote:slowly replacing parts of the engine with asm.js code?

IMO this is a much better idea than writing native exporters. I do want to do this eventually, but it still means rewriting a big part of the runtime, and probably breaking compatibility with all existing plugins. So I want to do this eventually, but it would probably come post-C3 release.

Also regarding native exporters - one of the reasons C2 is $129 for all exporters and not $999 is that we only have one codebase we need to maintain. All that extra engineering work would probably push the price up to another level. And "all exporters for one price" is a really nice thing about our licensing IMO.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:10 pm

Gianmichele wrote:Yeah, I have been playing with it for a while. Haxe in itself is pretty bare bone though. You're going to need a framework of some sort.


Besides a rendering engine (like Three.js (I can't do WebGL...)) I would much prefer to code my own engine anyways :lol:
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:28 pm

this might be something for people to read about: (why JS is slow - GUI mostly):

http://sealedabstract.com/rants/why-mob ... -are-slow/
Sea Monsters template - Isometric
Also includes 40 pages PDF of optimizations and "how-to" for your games, and how the "sea monsters" template was built. Follow link for details :)

sea-monsters-templates-and-assets_t162705
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:35 pm

@Ashley: You should really think about making a Construct Pro Version for 999,- for all this people that want native exporters so badly! ;)

And please, if somebody wanna argue now that Unity is free..look first the history of this company, for how long they sold their exporters for a good price, before they could afford giving it away for free...
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:57 pm

@Chupup Games
Yes I'm ready to pay for that up to 2000$ because if i have the amazing and easy-to-use C2 editor and Native exporter together i can make AWESOME games and gain what i paid in just 2 months.
I can't believe that there is no one can understand the importance and necessity of making native exporters !
we are making GAMES, and games = performance in the 1st place.
No performance = no playing, this is it.
Wasting the CPU power and memory to run a HUGE buggy browser and inside this browser there is a game that needs the whole device power to run!
Again look at this example (flappy bird clone) VERY very simple game.
https://easyandroidcoding.wordpress.com ... gdx-part-1
I followed this tutorial and the result was : 2mb APK, the image quality is perfect, constant 60 fps. JUST PERFECT!
Someone tell me please how to achieve that using C2 ?! simply there is no way to do that.
the APK size will be at least 16.5mb, installed on +20mb, up to 70% cpu usage, frame rate = 35 fps, and the battery will die very soon!
NO COMMENT
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Post » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:12 pm

BTW
I'm not a developer, I'm a cartoonist, animated film director and game designer, and i like C2 because it allows me to CREATE, no time to study coding from the beginning and I'm not even a developer.
I want to imagine, draw, design and play, i want to make my games without depending on a developer, it is very hard to find a developer who can understand animation , composition and directing as i do.
This is my job.
C2 developers job is to allow me to achieve that and they can, I'm sure they can, but they don't want to do.
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