How many of you guys HATE using C2?

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:38 pm

HI! im glad to see that you guys have a lot to say n.n

fisrt of all, I LOVE C2 im not putting my faults on c2 , in fact im very good at fixing bugs and problem solving, but sometimes i see things made by programmers, and it puts everything i have done into shame, for example how would you make the AI of Age of Empires 2 on C2? game like Transistor wich has some extremely complicated mechanics? its a pain in the butt make an isometric game in C2, let alone all the mechanics of Transistor.

The biggest thorn in my foot, its complicated math, i dont know how you guys would use sin() , cubic(a, b, c, d, x), qarp(a, b, c, x) etc
i still have problem with lerp and clamp :P

im doing my best, but im afraid that when my game come out, people will make fun of me for making the game on Cosntruct 2.
many people see engines like Contruct2 and Game Maker as baby toys, i dont like it :/

if i could find a programmer to take my place, i would do it, i think im putting in danger all the work of my boyfriend, the pression sometimes crushes me :P
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:55 pm

I had made more than 180 plugins.
For me, there is no different between C2 (VPL) and other text code language. Or I would said C2 is another structuralize text code, which leaving GUI script interface for tool users.
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:03 pm

@rexrainbow

hehehe well, you are a god to me, i love all your plugins, i swear im going to name a NPC on one of my games as you :P

maybe you could share something that you cant do? i would be surprised of hearing about one
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:03 pm

You know, I know a bit of JS, but I have no desire to learn those things. Maybe if I would clone myself. I'd expect software to work out of the box. Mantra is that we can do anything in it, which i'm not finding this to be absolutely true. Its logic doesn't consider all of possibilities. I've been using construct since around cc 0.3x , which gives me about 6 years of on and off experience. And i think there could be more actions and plugins that would bypass mundane but lengthy chains of events we have to write in order to get something as simple as in game menu working. There should be Menu plugin done already! And inventory plugin with many options to choose from! Platform behavior that will not lag when you control two characters at the same time. If a rex Platform Plus works better, and actually 100% awesome ( @rexrainbow your the boss dude! ), then the plugin that came originally with the soft, it does tell me something baffling. And outside plugins realm: Visual array editor, particles preview, and such ! On top of that the exporters issue. I just started working on my new project, and even thought I have beefy pc, and only 3 objects on screen, jiggers are there, in preview, and they are daunting.

I do make my own behaviors with events ( or use community made plugins ) if needed. But only some of them I can keep in separate sheets ( to keep things organised ) and call them trough functions, because "Wait" action do not work with "Trigger once" events. Why is that? It's a logic flaw of the software or mine. I believe, that when the goal is to make as friendly program as possible, one must take in to account what would be most useful features that would let the designer work fast. And c2 is only partly there in my opinion, as I already noticed long time ago that it is build from the point of few of a programmer and not from the point of view of a designer/artist. But I'm not ranting. In case of solid behavior, I have had try many ways to go around it's limitations, using events, and the prototype work clunky at best. And overall I'm pretty good with c2 logic. I learned what I can and can not do in it, and I work with that when designing my game. And the way it works is hierarchical, so you got to know in advance what are you doing. So take that sheet of paper and plan groups within groups, because otherwise you'll end up in a junkyard of duplicated events that will clattered logic of your game and ultimately you wont finish it.
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:20 pm

@lunatrap I see what you mean, but that is normal: not everyone has the same capacities (I am fairly decent with math, but then I see what rojo is doing, and I am like "... of course, that does make sense.. I think... I guess... I do not know... who wants some cake?"), but it is all about learning how and when to use the tools, and maths is one of them (the calculs themselves are not that important, what they can do is).

If you can gather some maths books (I do not know your age/situation/etc.) that matches your current maths skills, you could learn some things.

lerp(a, b, x) is used to get a value from a percentage.

a is the minimum
b is the maximum
x is the percentage (from 0 to 1)
at x=0, you have the minimum (a), at x=1, you have the maximum (b)
it is basically the same thing as what people use to scale a lifebar relative to the health.

clamp is used to keep a value between two boundaries
exemple, I want my health to be between minimum and maximum when I substract damage
set health to clamp(health-damage, minimum, maximum) will guarantee that health will not go over maximum, nor under minimum.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:35 pm

Interesting that these two comments below showed up next to each other... try this... make a new capx that does NOT use the solid behavior and code one yourself in C2 events that runs every tick which checks for overlapping rectangles and pushes any rectangle that crosses back out one pixel so it does not overlap... this will show you that it is just Logic and both code and C2 events are just Logic...and that you can either use Behaviors (code components) for speed or make your own with Logic if they do not have all the features you want.


@megatronx


That's why instead of long events I break them in to smaller parts, put them in to separate event sheets and chain them with functions most of the time. Much easier to find an issue if there is one.

But what pisses me off about construct is that I just can not do certain things with events. Like the infamous solid behavior limitations.




@Tokinsom


Far as I'm concerned, the behaviors and all the built in stuff are to blame. Most other engines have you make your own platform engines and such, as well as level editors, data tools, etc. With C2 you don't really learn much of anything...so if you start with C2 you'll likely always be a "noob". Not to say I don't appreciate behaviors and all, but ultimately we'd be better off with more features to make our own exactly how we want..
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:42 pm

Tokinsom wrote:Sure C2 can teach some very high level programming concepts. I meant you don't learn how to do a lot of things yourself which in turn make you a better programmer and more confident in your abilities. Like...probably half of the feature requests I see are for things you can already do with events, but people don't even realize it because they rely so heavily on behaviors and never learned the code. The solid exception feature megatronx just brought up is a great example. People using other engines have already made that feature themselves decades ago with no trouble whatsoever...meanwhile we've been begging for Ashley to add it to the behaviors for 2 years now.

And sure you can still make your own behaviors with events but I bet you half this community doesn't know how because no one posts that sort of thing...they too just use the behaviors. Thus they are forever stuck in that "noob" phase and limited to the behaviors feature sets.


I just saw you stated the same thing a little later.

My question is why do people not spend the time to do this? Events is just as much a part of C2 as Behaviors.

In the game I spent the past year on I wanted a cross between physics behavior and platform behavior... everyone said "those two do not work well together"... well I spent about four weekends learning to MAKE them work together with events... I learned a lot about C2 during that process and I MADE the computer do what I wanted it to do... and that is how I got good at computer programming back in the 1980s... I refused to let the computer win... Logic + Problem Solving + Trial & Error + Experience + Bull headedness?

ANYONE can become a very good computer programmer by refusing to let a problem beat them... by time they get it figured out and working they have learned a lot and have become better for the next problem.
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:48 pm

Lunatrap wrote:
The biggest thorn in my foot, its complicated math, i dont know how you guys would use sin() , cubic(a, b, c, d, x), qarp(a, b, c, x) etc
i still have problem with lerp and clamp :P


Math is just another Logic language like coding.

Start simple. Make a capx whose only purpose is to use sin or cubic to move something around and look up simple examples on the internet and recreate them inside C2.... do it over and over until it clicks in your heard what it is doing... after first getting it to work play around with the inputs (a,b,c,d,x) and see how they change the output.

You can also go to places like (http://www.khanacademy.org/) to learn math in a more simple way.
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:32 pm

The only time I "hate" parts of C2 are when I hit engine design choices. Yeah some times I feel something is missing or should be handled differernly. Most of the time I just code around those issues.

however sometimes there is IDE design limitations or engine issues that I can't avoid.

Such as
No extensible IDE. I cannot draw gui widgets on the editor. Many other tools let you do this.

No image atlas. I personally believe that binding the imags to the sprite is the wrong design. Instead images should be atlas by the developer and sprites then reference images in the sheet/atlsas.

Cannot unload objects. Without this developers cannot create vast streaming worlds.

There is no modularity. it's annoying to pop in designed works. I need to duplicate the objects before copy/pasting an event sheet. currently I just have a master game frame work that does a lot of the gui work done.

Plugin Reload. Would be nice if plugins after editing the edit time version of a plugin. that the change can be reloaded without closing the entire system.

Can't draw from a behavior. I tried to making a behavior related to path finding. Thought I could draw a bezier curve line from behavior. but you can't draw from a behavior.

Plugin ACE design is bulky.

There is more, but no point going on.

The way I put it
Game Logic issues. No i have no problem. What C2 doesn't have I can do myself.

Engine related issues. Makes we want to just use Unity, UDk or Anarchy. I don't because C2 library of plugins is astounding for a 2d engine.

However because of these engine related issues and the development choices of locking developers out of the nitty gritty. I have never been able to convince my company that C2 is a viable engine for 2d games.
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Post » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:13 pm

Since I introduced to Construct Classic, my perspective about game making was change. There is a feature I could just grab and working around my expectation. Set of behaviour are sit there to play with, help new comer like me to build a game. With so many example from community I learn a lot of things. Then I came up to realize that I could just write down the code in native way through the events like a semi-pro.

Thanks to Construct for opening possibilities in game making, which bring me to learn about programming an it's apects. I never understand how to use loop & iterative like i++ before. By incorporate these loop thing often in many experiment projects, put me in zen condition how to control everything. Now it make sense & much convenient to use Events the way Construct perform them. I hate when my self can't make things works, because I know Construct is capable to.

Just like someone else in forum, I wouldn't mind called C2 is A++ language.
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