How to get rid of ratio control in fullscreen?

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:05 pm

@stctr Makes perfect sense. Sorry if I misunderstood. I do not deny that it would be a useful feature in some scenarios as well.
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Post » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:25 pm

I'm afraid I also don't understand why you want to display your game this way. If you set up your game right, it will show everything at a 16:9 ratio and crop off the sides at 4:3. It looks far, far better this way than stretching the canvas out of proportion and it works on all aspect ratios, even if it takes some extra work to set it up. Why don't you want you use this method?

Also, console game makers have to deal with different aspect ratios too. They don't just render at one resolution for all TVs. In fact, I'm pretty sure console manufacturers wouldn't even allow it if someone tried. The ps3 for example has a setting in the video options to select 4:3 or 16:9, and devs have to make the game's HUD and such work with both, as it's very unprofessional looking to stretch the image like that, which is why they don't do it and render at a different resolution instead (also, the resolutions console games render for widescreen content at is actually generally something more like 1024x720/1152x720 from what I've read. Regardless of what they use, they still keep the image proportional).

If you really don't want to deal with it at all, you can do what final fantasy dimensions and such do, having it in full screen letterbox mode and having black or colored bars at the top and bottom of the screen, since people are often used to that from movies (even 16:9 screens have black bars often because movie content often uses a wider aspect ratio than 16:9).Arima2013-04-19 20:40:47
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Post » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:24 pm

I agree with both BluePhaze and Arima. I currently have a game in progress that goes full screen, and uses 9-patch and simple resize logic to deal with screen sizes. I even tested it by resizing the window to ARBITRARY sizes and everything just slides into place. Honestly, I think this request is because someone is being lazy. ;P
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Post » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:55 pm

[QUOTE=Arima] I'm afraid I also don't understand why you want to display your game this way. If you set up your game right, it will show everything at a 16:9 ratio and crop off the sides at 4:3. It looks far, far better this way than stretching the canvas out of proportion and it works on all aspect ratios, even if it takes some extra work to set it up. Why don't you want you use this method?

Also, console game makers have to deal with different aspect ratios too. They don't just render at one resolution for all TVs. In fact, I'm pretty sure console manufacturers wouldn't even allow it if someone tried. The ps3 for example has a setting in the video options to select 4:3 or 16:9, and devs have to make the game's HUD and such work with both, as it's very unprofessional looking to stretch the image like that, which is why they don't do it and render at a different resolution instead (also, the resolutions console games render for widescreen content at is actually generally something more like 1024x720/1152x720 from what I've read. Regardless of what they use, they still keep the image proportional).

If you really don't want to deal with it at all, you can do what final fantasy dimensions and such do, having it in full screen letterbox mode and having black or colored bars at the top and bottom of the screen, since people are often used to that from movies (even 16:9 screens have black bars often because movie content often uses a wider aspect ratio than 16:9).[/QUOTE]


@Arima Look, I was experiencing this for 2 months, so you have to trust me with sincerity. I'm going to respond, so do not take it as offense.


We know that everything you say is an excuse to not have interest about it because you do not know how to solve the problem of others, this is your personal opinion against the client's needs, we do what they want and expect to see the results as things go, if you say, is very unprofessional for this style I'm afraid you are wrong. This is game design and sometimes we just limited. You didn't mentioned on resolutions for phones. No need to be presumptuous to say so even if you published a game with multi-resolutions, I see you have no experience in that.

What you say about can not render a resolution for TV is true, but is different because HTML5 would not need to manipulate to change video resolutions from operating system you are using current resolution, it should work at any resolution.

There is a demo Fullscreen example does not show the true fullscreen it still has black spaces, is a hindrance to the experience. Not a movie work, is a work of video game. Because videos can not be drawn via programming. Someone teach me to full screen without black spaces and the sprites must be shown outside the exact layout of window design.

Let me show you an example you said stretching is not very professional, they look at that and judge for you. There is no perfection.


http://i.imgur.com/6dLtua3.jpg
(This image is very big...)

I'm saying that Scale can be useful for other game design, but also we need a more option.

Many developers we still need the option as stretching the screen to fit, that has the issue we're seeing of stretched images. It is normal if we have assets of 1024 x 768 to 1024 x 600 platform, using stretching so it would look fine without problems.

From a high-level perspective, depending on which is more important, maintaining a consistent aspect ratio, or ensuring that no one to see more than someone else just because doing lot wider screen or workshop.

Three important options are: letterbox, cropping and stretching.

Devices can choose on whatever resolution they feel like. Creating Project with each different to specificed platforms would be big waste of time, we might Consider having a stretchable or tileable graphic for the background (very huge! CocoonJS does not support extreme huge sprite, however it might use power of two tile could work), and maintain the same effective (scaled) playing area.

I'm going to ask you to support the idea to solve the problem of others and demonstrates C2 is useful after all, on the contrary would be useless and despised!

Don't forget about low resolution may take advantages all of them render the game and let the GPU doing the process. It helps boosting the FPS and save memory in most cases.Joannesalfa2013-04-20 01:19:06
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:26 am

It must be personal taste - I think all of the stretched images in that example look terrible. I'd personally prefer to have black bars than to see my art get distorted and blurry. I remember when I first got a widescreen tv and our cable channels didn't support the format - everything was stretched all to hell and looked awful. After awhile, people in real life started looking too thin ;)

That said, if it takes a few lines of code to support it, I guess it should be an option. But if it's any real amount of work, I sincerely hope it doesn't take priority over some of the other features on the todo list.
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:19 am

What I did for KidSpell is put the project in 640,360 fullscreen scale and made it so that the background image goes beyond the boundaries of the layout's size.
As far as I've been able to see across several devices, it worked and covered all the screen every time.



Being a professional is also knowing when to say no to the client and teaching/guiding him when he's making a bad call.
Stretch the graphics ? In my gamer's opinion it's a very bad call.
Black stripes on the side ? In my game designer's opinion it fits with the black and white backgrounds and should not affect the experience.Kyatric2013-04-20 02:20:30
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:27 am

Following Your image example I've made this one:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34375299/Construct%202/bugs%20and%20fixes/ar.jpg

Aspect ratios are important and even this video link proves that.
http://flamma-beta.com/multires/MAQ00023.MP4

As a multi platform game developer You need to design Your game to look almost the same on different devices. Yes almost. You can't expect the game will look exactly the same on wide iphone (640x960, 640x1136) or ipad (1024x768, 2048x1536) cause it's not possible.

If You need to have a background image at full size of the screen it's better to make it bigger - to satisfy all devices resolutions, but focus your gameplay on specific area of the screen.

You can design games to work on 640x480 and then if You switch to 960x520 (random resolution) you can scale your gameplay area.

And with bigger background image there is no difference in gameplay, You only see more sides on wider resolutions.

You should never do what You are asking for. It's a bad practice and overall bad thing to do as a game developer. I have never seen that approach in normal game (not talking about experimental prototypes kind of games) for past 20 years.
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:45 am

@shinkan @Kyatric @rogueNoodle


Don't forget about low resolution may take advantages all of them render the game and let the GPU doing the process. It helps boosting the FPS and save memory in most cases.
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:34 am

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]@Arima Look, I was experiencing this for 2 months, so you have to trust me with sincerity. I'm going to respond, so do not take it as offense.


We know that everything you say is an excuse to not have interest about it because you do not know how to solve the problem of others,[/QUOTE]

What the...

I have no idea where this is coming from, as it is completely false, and actually I do take offense to it, especially after all the effort I've put into the community. I DON'T say things as an excuse to not have interest in things because I don't know how to solve them. That's ridiculous, and frankly insulting for you to not only tell me a complete lie about my motivations as if you know what's going on in my head better than I do, but also for you to put words in other people's mouths because you've decided that since you think something everyone else thinks it too. Maybe that reveals something about how much you think others want the feature you're asking for, when ignoring the evidence that pretty much the entire game industry goes to great lengths to avoid having to use it.

Perhaps you could consider your misinterpretation of my intent due to communication difficulties of the language barrier? I often have difficulty understanding what you meant from what you wrote. Tone and intent is often hard to discern over the internet, and as such you should generally give people the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, I'm sorry to hear some of my posts have come off that way to you, and assure you that was not my intent. If I'm arguing against a point, it it is because I disagree, not because I don't want to admit I don't know the solution. I even mention in the post on this very page another method which I and others agree is better.

I responded to this thread because you seemed to be under some impressions which are incorrect, like console game developers only rendering at one resolution and stretching fit for all screens, which simply isn't true. Maybe it has been done before, but I have seen a LOT of games and can't recall even single time a 'pro' game used it aside from pc games allowing the user to select a resolution with an incorrect aspect ratio from a list and games made before the widescreen era, when there were no widescreens to program for.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]this is your personal opinion against the client's needs, we do what they want and expect to see the results as things go, if you say, is very unprofessional for this style I'm afraid you are wrong.[/QUOTE]

I say you're wrong, you say I'm wrong - obviously it is a matter of opinion rather than a fact, but I have heard people complain about the look many times before in other places when they had their monitor resolutions set wrong and can't recall any games intentionally using the technique, which leads me to believe it's the popular opinion in both the dev comunity and user base that most people don't like it. I respect your having a different opinion, but I disagree with it. I'm not the only one who does, and I was trying to bring that to your attention as you don't seem to be aware of it. Maybe I've seen a skewed sample of opinions, but I really don't think so.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]This is game design and sometimes we just limited.[/QUOTE]

I didn't think you were as limited in this situation as you thought you were, which is why I brought up common methods other developers use that you might not have been aware of, and asked why you didn't want to use them.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]You didn't mentioned on resolutions for phones.[/QUOTE]

The method I described works on everything, phones included.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]No need to be presumptuous to say so even if you published a game with multi-resolutions, I see you have no experience in that. [/QUOTE]

No need for you to be presumptuous assuming I have no experience working with multiple resolutions/aspect ratios on mobile because I haven't released anything publically. I've gotten multi-resolution and aspect ratio support working fine in two games, even though you haven't seen either of them.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]What you say about can not render a resolution for TV is true, but is different because HTML5 would not need to manipulate to change video resolutions from operating system you are using current resolution, it should work at any resolution. [/QUOTE]

It's exactly the same problem for computers, except worse, as there are far more different resolutions and aspect ratios of monitors and mobile devices than TVs. System resolution vs actual device resolution is mostly irrelevant - you still have a variety of aspect ratios in both situations.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]There is a demo Fullscreen example does not show the true fullscreen it still has black spaces, is a hindrance to the experience. Not a movie work, is a work of video game. Because videos can not be drawn via programming. Someone teach me to full screen without black spaces and the sprites must be shown outside the exact layout of window design. [/QUOTE]

Next time you want to get someone to explain something they're describing in more detail, here's a tip: ask them to do so instead of assuming the reason they didn't explain it step by step is because they don't know how.

I don't understand what you meant by "the sprites must be shown outside the exact layout of window design." Regardless, here's the method I use. Either:

Full screen in browser set to scale.
Window size set to 2048x1536. This covers up to ipad size 'natively.'
Layout size set to at least 2048x1536, unbounded scrolling set to on.
Black rectangles covering any area outside the aspect ratio that I want them to see for those who try extreme aspect ratios by resizing the window.
Content designed for 16:9, expecting the sides of which to get cropped off at 4:3.

Or

Alternately, you could instead do the opposite and use a 16:9 ratio for the window size which would result in more area being shown on 4:3 monitors at the top and bottom of the screen (the area which would otherwise be black in letterbox mode), therefore making all content at 4:3 expecting those top and bottom areas to be cut off on 16:9 monitors.


[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]Let me show you an example you said stretching is not very professional, they look at that and judge for you.[/QUOTE]

There are some images that can be stretched that don't look bad afterwards, but in most cases I still dislike the look.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]From a high-level perspective, depending on which is more important, maintaining a consistent aspect ratio, or ensuring that no one to see more than someone else just because doing lot wider screen or workshop.[/QUOTE]

This is another problem that pro developers have to deal with. In Starcraft 2, one of the designers talked about how they had to make it so that those with widescreen monitors would simply be able to see more of the battlefield, and therefore have a bit of a competitive edge over people with 4:3 monitors. That's high level pro gaming we're talking about them building here, with competitions for heaps of cash involved, and they still wouldn't stretch the screen.

With html5 though, in a resizeable window the user can use extreme aspect ratios and see way off the side of the screen as a result. You can stop people from seeing further by my suggestion above of putting black rectangles over anything past the area you want them to see if someone tries to do so.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]Creating Project with each different to specificed platforms would be big waste of time,[/QUOTE]

I'm not implying you should make different projects for different resolutions - you can make 1 project adjust itself automatically to any current resolution at runtime.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]I'm going to ask you to support the idea to solve the problem of others and demonstrates C2 is useful after all, on the contrary would be useless and despised![/QUOTE]

If you still really want to do it that way even after everything I and others have said to you, fine. I understand how people can want things I don't, but I'm not going to argue for in favor for this just because you want it, as I think having it there would encourage others to use it, when it's an approach that I don't think should be used because there is, in my opinion, a better method. That was the whole purpose of my post - to tell you the feature you're asking for is unnessecary because a better method exists. If you disagree, fine. That's what a forum is for, discussion.

[QUOTE=Joannesalfa]Don't forget about low resolution may take advantages all of them render the game and let the GPU doing the process. It helps boosting the FPS and save memory in most cases.[/QUOTE]

I like the idea of being able to lower the resolution to improve the fps, I've even argued for it before. However, I still maintain that it looks far better if done proportionally, and there are ways to deal with the difficulties that result from doing so that are better than stretching the image.Arima2013-04-20 09:08:10
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:27 pm

I have to agree with Arima, stretching the game to fit the screen is I think a very bad way to make a fullscreen. I just dont know any game that use this method to make a fullscreen. And as a gamer, if I launch a game and see that it have just been stretched to fit my screen, I would probably leave the game thinking the dev were too lazy to make something correct.

[Quote=Arima]Alternately, you could instead do the opposite and use a 16:9 ratio for the window size which would result in more area being shown on 4:3 monitors at the top and bottom of the screen (the area which would otherwise be black in letterbox mode), therefore making all content at 4:3 expecting those top and bottom areas to be cut off on 16:9 monitors.[/QUOTE]

I use this method and it perfectly works to make fullscreen without making an ugly stretch.
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