How to get rid of ratio control in fullscreen?

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:27 pm

I have to agree with Arima, stretching the game to fit the screen is I think a very bad way to make a fullscreen. I just dont know any game that use this method to make a fullscreen. And as a gamer, if I launch a game and see that it have just been stretched to fit my screen, I would probably leave the game thinking the dev were too lazy to make something correct.

[Quote=Arima]Alternately, you could instead do the opposite and use a 16:9 ratio for the window size which would result in more area being shown on 4:3 monitors at the top and bottom of the screen (the area which would otherwise be black in letterbox mode), therefore making all content at 4:3 expecting those top and bottom areas to be cut off on 16:9 monitors.[/QUOTE]

I use this method and it perfectly works to make fullscreen without making an ugly stretch.
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Post » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:48 pm

Whether or not you personally believe a stretch from edge to edge is a bad idea shouldn't determine if the function should be made available. In many cases I believe it would be a perfectly acceptable solution and I would have thought that it would be a basic concept that would be supported by default.
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:22 am

[QUOTE=Arima]

What the...

I have no idea where this is coming from, as it is completely false, and actually I do take offense to it, especially after all the effort I've put into the community. I DON'T say things as an excuse to not have interest in things because I don't know how to solve them. That's ridiculous, and frankly insulting for you to not only tell me a complete lie about my motivations as if you know what's going on in my head better than I do, but also for you to put words in other people's mouths because you've decided that since you think something everyone else thinks it too. Maybe that reveals something about how much you think others want the feature you're asking for, when ignoring the evidence that pretty much the entire game industry goes to great lengths to avoid having to use it.

Perhaps you could consider your misinterpretation of my intent due to communication difficulties of the language barrier? I often have difficulty understanding what you meant from what you wrote. Tone and intent is often hard to discern over the internet, and as such you should generally give people the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, I'm sorry to hear some of my posts have come off that way to you, and assure you that was not my intent. If I'm arguing against a point, it it is because I disagree, not because I don't want to admit I don't know the solution. I even mention in the post on this very page another method which I and others agree is better.

I responded to this thread because you seemed to be under some impressions which are incorrect, like console game developers only rendering at one resolution and stretching fit for all screens, which simply isn't true. Maybe it has been done before, but I have seen a LOT of games and can't recall even single time a 'pro' game used it aside from pc games allowing the user to select a resolution with an incorrect aspect ratio from a list and games made before the widescreen era, when there were no widescreens to program for.

[/QUOTE]

I understand you, I do not want to debate here.

We are looking for help to improve C2 should have an additional option to meet as a tool after all, though we are not looking for answers that do not agree.

I made a thread which is called "How to get rid of ratio control in fullscreen?"

I was looking a help, then i decided to make an idea to solve the problems what they need, even if you disagree it while this is not your problem.

Besides, Ashley made an unprofessional response like "IT LOOKS HORRIBLE!" it's considered an excuse because he won't help. Stretching method is common as ugly, but not all, it has some reasons to make it work, it's not about lazy and ugly, we should tell why. I'm trying to explain to Ashley to understand, then he finally ignored this thread... shameless.

Then other posters followed Ashley's response and they keep saying Ugly and something scorned. Not cool.

This is a thread is considered a help and ideas, we aren't looking a flame even this is my problem and others, not yours if you disagree this idea.

If you want to help, no need to make excuses. My problem is:
I am looking to get rid of black bars in fullscreen. Also the others are looking this solution. It doesn't matter if is for widescreen and portrait orientation.



[QUOTE=Arima]
I say you're wrong, you say I'm wrong - obviously it is a matter of opinion rather than a fact, but I have heard people complain about the look many times before in other places when they had their monitor resolutions set wrong and can't recall any games intentionally using the technique, which leads me to believe it's the popular opinion in both the dev comunity and user base that most people don't like it. I respect your having a different opinion, but I disagree with it. I'm not the only one who does, and I was trying to bring that to your attention as you don't seem to be aware of it. Maybe I've seen a skewed sample of opinions, but I really don't think so.
[/QUOTE]

It is true. My apologies, because I am surrounded by people who are not interested in resolving the problem are against my idea. Because they do not understand while saying so ugly, ugly, ugly and lazy.



[QUOTE=Arima]
I didn't think you were as limited in this situation as you thought you were, which is why I brought up common methods other developers use that you might not have been aware of, and asked why you didn't want to use them.
[/QUOTE]

What if they use it for any screen resolutions than widescreen resolutions? Obviously the screen would look incorrect. There is another solution is to change resolution for special platform.


[QUOTE=Arima]
The method I described works on everything, phones included.
[/QUOTE]

Are you using 960 x 640 resolution? I know you have iPhone 4S, but what if other mobiles devices are using different resolutions? If you said it works on everything. Would you post a modified .capx as fullscreen test for different devices?

I was hoping if you get rid of black bars on all resolutions.


[QUOTE=Arima]
No need for you to be presumptuous assuming I have no experience working with multiple resolutions/aspect ratios on mobile because I haven't released anything publically. I've gotten multi-resolution and aspect ratio support working fine in two games, even though you haven't seen either of them.
[/QUOTE]

Honestly, many games released for specificed platform that secure the display's native resolution, I've never seen any game that supports any screen resolution.


[QUOTE=Arima]
It's exactly the same problem for computers, except worse, as there are far more different resolutions and aspect ratios of monitors and mobile devices than TVs. System resolution vs actual device resolution is mostly irrelevant - you still have a variety of aspect ratios in both situations.
[/QUOTE]


It is true as irrelevant, lower resolutions than original resolution show black bars and blurry images, but this is not really a problem.


[QUOTE=Arima]
Next time you want to get someone to explain something they're describing in more detail, here's a tip: ask them to do so instead of assuming the reason they didn't explain it step by step is because they don't know how.

I don't understand what you meant by "the sprites must be shown outside the exact layout of window design." Regardless, here's the method I use. Either:

Full screen in browser set to scale.
Window size set to 2048x1536. This covers up to ipad size 'natively.'
Layout size set to at least 2048x1536, unbounded scrolling set to on.
Black rectangles covering any area outside the aspect ratio that I want them to see for those who try extreme aspect ratios by resizing the window.
Content designed for 16:9, expecting the sides of which to get cropped off at 4:3.

Or

Alternately, you could instead do the opposite and use a 16:9 ratio for the window size which would result in more area being shown on 4:3 monitors at the top and bottom of the screen (the area which would otherwise be black in letterbox mode), therefore making all content at 4:3 expecting those top and bottom areas to be cut off on 16:9 monitors.
[/QUOTE]



I'm sorry, "the sprites must be shown outside the exact layout of window design." It seems wrong typed, i mean the sprites SHOULDN'T be shown in outside of window while is on fullscreen. It looks so uncomfortable.


You say:

Window size set to 2048x1536. This covers up to ipad size 'natively.'
Layout size set to at least 2048x1536, unbounded scrolling set to on.


We already know about it, why should we bother to change assets from 640 x 480 to 2048 x 1536?

I tested with your solution, it looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/7pudakv.jpg

Ew... come on.


We don't really care if we target to 4:3 and 16:9 resolutions. We wouldn't look black bars again.



[QUOTE=Arima]
This is another problem that pro developers have to deal with. In Starcraft 2, one of the designers talked about how they had to make it so that those with widescreen monitors would simply be able to see more of the battlefield, and therefore have a bit of a competitive edge over people with 4:3 monitors. That's high level pro gaming we're talking about them building here, with competitions for heaps of cash involved, and they still wouldn't stretch the screen.

With html5 though, in a resizeable window the user can use extreme aspect ratios and see way off the side of the screen as a result. You can stop people from seeing further by my suggestion above of putting black rectangles over anything past the area you want them to see if someone tries to do so.
[/QUOTE]

It's different as their game designs, not ours. This is not a problem.
Starcraft 2 used minimal stretching to adjust UI elements and used zoom to battlefield, basically, in fact, a port of starcraft from PC to Nintendo 64, they used 4:3 resolution using cropping window, actually it looks blurry than PC version which used for original VGA resolution. As optical illusion, if you play Starcraft 2 on mega screen, how far would look better and as close looks very blurry. It is the same with screen styles, I think is totally irrelevant to my problem.



[QUOTE=Arima]
I'm not implying you should make different projects for different resolutions - you can make 1 project adjust itself automatically to any current resolution at runtime.
[/QUOTE]


....

Make a .capx, i've tried it before and i found no solution. You probably won't make a .capx because you wouldn't waste your time to get rid of black bars in fullscreen.


[QUOTE=Arima]
If you still really want to do it that way even after everything I and others have said to you, fine. I understand how people can want things I don't, but I'm not going to argue for in favor for this just because you want it, as I think having it there would encourage others to use it, when it's an approach that I don't think should be used because there is, in my opinion, a better method. That was the whole purpose of my post - to tell you the feature you're asking for is unnessecary because a better method exists. If you disagree, fine. That's what a forum is for, discussion.
[/QUOTE]


I agree with you, maybe it's good to learn to solve the problems in your future projects as something they bother you that when you discover something, now you are looking another solution. Especially, you game used a lot of memories on mobile devices that you wouldn't to release until you wait they implement better dynamic memory management.



[QUOTE=Arima]
I like the idea of being able to lower the resolution to improve the fps, I've even argued for it before. However, I still maintain that it looks far better if done proportionally, and there are ways to deal with the difficulties that result from doing so that are better than stretching the image.
[/QUOTE]

If i were neutral poster, i would like to experiment to cover the entire screen if they use GUI elements which causes to decrease original window of game and showed thin black bar in mobile. I'd use stretching to stretch image little bit and it would work.
As retro games, it could be good idea.
Proportionally is required to make multiple projects to specificed resolutions, you said "you can make 1 project adjust itself automatically to any current resolution at runtime" it's considered a myth.
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:29 am

So, where's the capx
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:38 am

I think that that should be a USER setting, not something automagically detected.

I know, cumbersome, but that should make a better fit for monitors and iPads.
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:23 am

@Ashley, I believe this should be added. It doesn't really harm anyone - it is like fullscreen films in a way. As long as the game developers use a big image it shouldn't look bad. Upsizing usually destroys quality and downsizing hides imperfections. Although, it should be added as an additional fullscreen option. I'm not that experienced at multiple resolutions, but I can see where he is coming from. Additionally, developers should give the user the option to use fullscreen or not.Helladen2013-04-21 06:38:09
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:50 am

http://www.scirra.com/forum/topic66689.html

Is that a reason I did the full screen issue? that smote my feelings :/
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:05 am

Things did get a bit heated..

@Joannesalfa, I can understand why you were frustrated. For what its worth though I think you did cross the line a little when you directly insulted Arima's intelligence and should probably apologise. As he said his intent is/was to help you not harm and I believe him. He wasnt attacking you personally, he was just giving his opinion on what he thought you should do instead. (That doesnt make it ok to post what that other guy did though just to be clear! Dont pay attention to that).

On topic though, like Helladen said, having an 'in-game' option of switching back and forth between full aspect ratio and stretch would be a nice addition to C2 imo. If its not a major hassle to implement that is.GenkiGenga2013-04-21 10:09:24
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:38 pm

No, we won't support this. It's the wrong solution. Black bars are totally standard in the TV industry for dealing with aspect ratio changes. They *are* a professionally used solution. Stretching like that changes the aspect ratio, and I've never seen any game ever do that, because it distorts the art and makes everything look wrong.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:05 pm

Ashman, why don't you put a CAPX in the templates folder of "safe areas"?

like this:


And put the safe areas of the more popular devices (iPad2, iPhone5, iPad Retina), That way one can more easily design across devices.

Thanks.California2013-04-21 13:10:42
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