I am in a rut

Chat about anything not covered in these forums, but keep it civil!

Post » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:59 pm

[quote="alspal":3gwcopnn][quote="Arima":3gwcopnn] it's more that game and story are often hard to get to work well together. [/quote:3gwcopnn]
lol. Oh the misconceptions of story. Story doesn't equal walls of text/voice.[/quote:3gwcopnn]
So I've been doing it all wrong! I've been shoting at the wall of text all the time :shock:
B
62
S
21
G
12
Posts: 1,910
Reputation: 13,155

Post » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:58 pm

[quote="alspal":278rflgw][quote="Arima":278rflgw] it's more that game and story are often hard to get to work well together. [/quote:278rflgw]
lol. Oh the misconceptions of story. Story doesn't equal walls of text/voice.[/quote:278rflgw]

I didn't say it did. My point was stories often call for stuff that's hard to make work right in games. Like how about a subtle emotional moment between two characters? On film/etc, that's the same process as anything else. For games, how do you do that aside from a cutscene? Press one button to be comforting, another to snap back? How's that different from selecting options from a list in interactive fiction and having the result animated instead of text? Subtle interaction between characters can be quite difficult to make work right in a gameplay fashion, especially if you want it in something with some other gameplay type like a platformer. And what about the story calling for something that would be ridiculously hard to implement?

There are many things you can do that work. However, it's not as easy as having a great story and making a game of it. My point is, how would something like "Pride and Prejudice" the game play? (If you don't know the story, it's basically a bunch of complex character interactions. Not much there that's suited to traditional ideas of gameplay.)
Moderator
B
87
S
32
G
33
Posts: 3,005
Reputation: 27,397

Post » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:46 pm

[quote="Arima":3qo0v5q8]My point is, how would something like "Pride and Prejudice" the game play?[/quote:3qo0v5q8]
[url:3qo0v5q8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0X6V7DTTLY[/url:3qo0v5q8]




You add zombies. And then, you drop-kick them.
B
3
S
2
G
4
Posts: 1,445
Reputation: 4,665

Post » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:54 pm

Man, I frigging KNEW someone was going to bring that up. :roll:

But that actually kind of proves my point. Getting it to work without significantly modifying it is quite difficult - look what they did, added a 'reason' for combat, which is something games can do quite easily - which is what I was talking when I mentioned stories suited for gameplay. A story that has a reason for lots of combat is well-suited to a game, where as pride and predjudice without zombies isn't.

Again, I'm not saying you can't have good stories in games without walls of text or cinema scenes - it's simply sometimes difficult and there are some stories games are more suited for than others.

Many new ways of telling/being a part of stories in games have yet to be discovered, but it's not simple and lots of people are scratching their heads about it, which was what I was talking about in the first place.
Moderator
B
87
S
32
G
33
Posts: 3,005
Reputation: 27,397

Post » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:19 pm

Haha I know the feeling Hasuak. Been thinking about the same thing on and off for over a year now and have only come to the conclusion that it's probably best to try a minimalistic approach to both the gameplay and the story. Not only will that make it more doable in terms of scope, but I think the two will be able to play along more nicely if theyre not fighting for dominance.

Like Arima suggested, it may be wise to rework the story to see if it can fit with different kinds of gameplay better. Maybe have the story told in a subtle way throughout the game, where the player would have to fill in a lot of the blanks. Have you ever played Out of this World? It's a pretty good examples of this.

I personally also feel that combat heavy gameplay kind of distracts me from story... I think adventure type games are better for immersing players but the challenge there is to make it feel like you're doing something even when you're stuck, else it can get boring fast. Most people these days don't seem to have much patience for obscure, often nonsensical puzzles and such.
B
3
S
1
G
4
Posts: 42
Reputation: 1,609

Post » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:49 am

I'd like to point out that writing for a book is different than writing for a film and that is also different than writing for a videogame.

Things that work in one may not work in the other. For example, extended inner dialog works well in a book, but it becomes boring quickly in a movie, while it works in a game if it's not essential and it's done during an activity that is not too demanding (so the player can split his attention to both the task and dialogue).

As usual, all I can advise is to start small. Write a two page story GEARED TOWARDS GAMING (more doing, less contemplating and pondering), and then try to take it to completion.

I'm not much for big stories in games, but what I've seen that works is focusing on what is to be done and why. Don't stray too far into hypothetical future or ancestors or whatever, as it will be normally glossed over and forgotten, unless you're doing a big franchise, in which case you wouldn't be in here anyway :P
Having a backstory is nice, but you'll usually rely on it for better characterization. Resident Evil 5 does this well, serving "files" (text backstory) on each character, while the main game only shows the present and some hints of the past. This keeps things moving.
B
3
S
2
G
4
Posts: 1,445
Reputation: 4,665

Post » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:25 pm

[quote="madster":29mci8p2]Having a backstory is nice, but you'll usually rely on it for better characterization. Resident Evil 5 does this well, serving "files" (text backstory) on each character, while the main game only shows the present and some hints of the past. This keeps things moving.[/quote:29mci8p2]

Not to mention the Metroid Prime games use of scanning the environment, making requiring the background/exposition an actual game element. Although I did get a bit frustrated with it, not because it was implemented poorly or anything, just that I'd kick myself in the shins if I knowingly missed something. :P
B
73
S
20
G
10
Posts: 524
Reputation: 9,896

Post » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:30 pm

[quote="inkBot":mgpjsoh4]Although I did get a bit frustrated with it[/quote:mgpjsoh4]
And this is why it shouldn't be mandatory :)
Most of the backstory text in the Metroid Prime series is optional. You can ignore it by not scanning until you reach shiny things that are begging to be scanned.
B
3
S
2
G
4
Posts: 1,445
Reputation: 4,665

Post » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:53 pm

In regards to RPG making, it isn't all that hard. I'd says it's more tedious. However, if you commit yourself, you can make something better than in RPG Maker. Especially real-time RPG like Star Ocean or the Tales series. In fact, the Tales battle system is really a fighting system with rpg elements. You can event do air combs.=P
B
11
S
3
G
8
Posts: 473
Reputation: 4,569

Post » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:11 pm

[quote="Azu":1mzlz9cw]In regards to RPG making, it isn't all that hard.[/quote:1mzlz9cw]

I disagree. And so do many others. It's hard because RPGs - even simple ones - are seriously complex, with a gazillion different parts that need to be programmed and work together. It's why my 'simple' RPG is approaching 8000 events.

Have you tried making an RPG without RPG maker? I thought it would be easy, too. I think there's something about RPGs in particular that makes them seem easy to make :?
Moderator
B
87
S
32
G
33
Posts: 3,005
Reputation: 27,397

PreviousNext

Return to Open Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests