I got C2 working in IE7/IE8!!! - Audio HELP?

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu May 24, 2012 8:12 pm

What country does have its schools stuck on ie7/ie8 (to the point it can't update to MODERN and DECENT browsers) ?

HTML5 is made to run on the latest browsers.

You can ask people to invent ways to feed a Ferrari engine with coal, and have some proof of concept working, it doesn't change the fact that it is a loss of ressource and philosophicaly and environementaly something that is just wrong, brother.Kyatric2012-05-24 20:14:00
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:37 pm

do u not realize, im dealing with the biggest textbook publisher in the world, and they require this? It's not about philosophically anything. It's about practicality. You may say they're stupid. No, they're right. K-12 public schools in the US stil have a huge numer using IE8 and below.

I'm gonna get it to work just like I did flashcanvas with or without anyone's help. You're losing tons of traffic and money, even on regular sites with 10% using IE8 and below. They're not upgrading because you say so.

Where's your common sense, guys? plus this task isn't that hard. the friggin space blasters demo works in ie8, ie7 and ie6 using my flashcanvas implementation. I'll get audio working just as easily. Why you want to miss out on money, makes no sense to me. Guess you don't have a site generating you $10k that could generate your 11.5k, or in the case of the education industry (this is an example), a 13-15k instead of 10k, my brother. 30-50% of browsers in public k-12 schools in the US are IE8 and below. Yes, ur regular site (i.e. not targeted towards k-12 public schools) is at 11% or something, but that's still a significant number.

You guys are so religious around here. Why not some help, eh?

Ashley mentioned some things that will cause a problem, which i havent run into yet (and I've now done a whole custom game that worked out perfectly), but I bet i can find solutions for those too. I think it was something with json.

Anyway the point is this is a fantastic platform. Why not support IE8 and below. It would be a huge selling point. It doesn't mean you can go on newgrounds because flashcanvas only works in IE, not other browsers, but it would mean 100% complete cross-platform support!
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 11:26 pm

We don't want to encourage anyone to stay on old browsers. All the exciting new features being added like gamepad support, fullscreen support, high-resolution timers, hardware-accelerated rendering, javascript engines fast enough to run physics simulations and particle effects, generational/concurrent garbage collectors for smoothness, Web Audio API, WebGL shaders, real-time audio and video streaming/peer-to-peer calls over the web (currently in development by browser makers), page visibility features (which also enables pausing the game when hidden), new form control types, Web Fonts, sandboxed iframes for secure game hosting, and other features which we don't currently use but might in future (mouse lock, features from CSS3 or the new DOM additions)... they're only in the IE9+, Firefox 4+ and Chrome generation of browsers.

Firefox and Chrome release updates every 6 weeks now, often adding more features too. The web is moving forwards fast. We're trying to keep Construct 2 up with the bleeding edge. Being at the forefront of technology is important enough to us that if an organisation does not want to install a free improved browser to support Construct 2, then we won't slow ourselves down by looking back.

By insisting we're also increasing pressure to these organisations to upgrade. Old, outdated browsers hold back the development of the web - just think of the complete nightmare that was IE6, and how it continued (or even continues!) to be a problem over ten years after its release! Note Firefox and Chrome automatically and silently upgrade to prevent this problem. So we want to strongly encourage people to use modern browsers, too. It's sort of "being cruel to be kind" in my eyes, because it is actually better for them too, even if they don't want it (these browsers are a lot more secure as well for example). And I am confident that despite possible short term gains, in the long term it is more beneficial for our business to insist on this: I wouldn't want anyone to still be using IE7 in 5 years time because we let them get away with using it...
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 2:53 am

Just a quick note, about Ashley last comment, but Internet Explorer is also automatically and silently updated since the beginning of this year, capped by the OS limitations (IE8 on XP, 9 on Vista and 7) if I'm not mistaken.
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 10:00 am

[QUOTE=faceyspacey] do u not realize, im dealing with the biggest textbook publisher in the world, and they require this? It's not about philosophically anything. It's about practicality. You may say they're stupid. No, they're right. K-12 public schools in the US stil have a huge numer using IE8 and below.

I'm gonna get it to work just like I did flashcanvas with or without anyone's help. You're losing tons of traffic and money, even on regular sites with 10% using IE8 and below. They're not upgrading because you say so.

Where's your common sense, guys? plus this task isn't that hard. the friggin space blasters demo works in ie8, ie7 and ie6 using my flashcanvas implementation. I'll get audio working just as easily. Why you want to miss out on money, makes no sense to me. Guess you don't have a site generating you $10k that could generate your 11.5k, or in the case of the education industry (this is an example), a 13-15k instead of 10k, my brother. 30-50% of browsers in public k-12 schools in the US are IE8 and below. Yes, ur regular site (i.e. not targeted towards k-12 public schools) is at 11% or something, but that's still a significant number.

You guys are so religious around here. Why not some help, eh?

Ashley mentioned some things that will cause a problem, which i havent run into yet (and I've now done a whole custom game that worked out perfectly), but I bet i can find solutions for those too. I think it was something with json.

Anyway the point is this is a fantastic platform. Why not support IE8 and below. It would be a huge selling point. It doesn't mean you can go on newgrounds because flashcanvas only works in IE, not other browsers, but it would mean 100% complete cross-platform support![/QUOTE]


Calm down, there a reason what you are talking is like a DVD disc game to insert on Nintendo 64 console and it works, but who uses it? don't waste your time to develop your awesome game for IE 7 and 8 with flashcanvas.


Actually, the news report says the modern browsers come with HTML5 are using more than IE7/8 there a source:

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2012/04/19/74-of-the-browser-market-supports-html5-video-but-flashs-death-will-take-time/

Also remember Internet Explorer 6 is officially "crapware", also IE 7 and 8 will be crapware soon, you can notice a lot of experienced users really hate IE.

Did you know Microsoft stopped supporting Windows XP? then Scirra DOES support Windows XP! but with modern browsers.
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 12:35 pm

[QUOTE=dEspadas] Just a quick note, about Ashley last comment, but Internet Explorer is also automatically and silently updated since the beginning of this year, capped by the OS limitations (IE8 on XP, 9 on Vista and 7) if I'm not mistaken.[/QUOTE]

That's true, but organisations tend to install Windows Updates when it suits them, i.e. very rarely and years between. So that tends to mean they're lagging behind even the current Windows Updates.
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 3:14 pm

Ashley,

By the way I got audio working:
http://mcgraw-hill.faceyspacey.com/rocket-blast-3-v11

it's using audio.js (http://kolber.github.com/audiojs) with a connector I wrote. It still needs a lot of optimization. If anyone has any advice, let me know.

Otherwise, I got a quick counter-argument for you, Ashley: by supporting more platforms, you'll be able to segway more people into the future. Many people don't use your solution because it won't work easily in IE<9. You could be a stepping stone for them. Basically the opposite of your argument could be true. By supporting more platforms, you can get more people using HTML5 than otherwise.

In general, martyrdom rhetoric is always the loss of stubborn individuals. I'm sorry, but you're not really going to make a difference in the whole movement to html5. I mean you could, but it's not worth your time. It would be more beneficial to C2 as a whole to do whatever it takes to get more people on board with it.

With full IE<9 support, you could get a host of new developers who otherwise passed on C2. Once they're with you, you now got a bigger ship of developers moving to the HTML5 world. They have flash easily working, but overall they're more supportive of the HTML movement. Just think about it, man. What's fantasy and theory vs. reality? Reality is I just need to get the above game a little more optimized and a huge percentage of your games can easily work in IE<9. Now coding in HTML5 first is an option for tons of flash developers that would otherwise stay entrenched in flash for even longer.

It's all about the segway, man. That's how we'll most quickly and most smoothly get to where we wall want to go where browsers kick ass and are cross-compatible.
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 5:15 pm

I understand your problem @faceyspacey i just suffered with IE7/8 in my university with their desktops, many organizations wont update their system after 4 or 5 years, and today browsers improving so much fast than before, and I'm glad you made it work finally, and also @Ashley is totally right too for not wasting time and resources on outdated technology, but again i sensed you made it work by yourself, i believe this a good reason to let those who refuse to use new browsers to try HTML5, even it's limited with IE7/8 and not worth to support, but it's enough to grab their attention to update, convincing them to HTML5 . prinsukun2012-05-30 17:17:30
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Post » Thu May 31, 2012 2:09 pm

I think supporting old browsers won't make anyone excited about HTML5 at all. Old browsers are extremely slow and have very poor feature support (see the list I made off the top of my head). I imagine people being more disappointed than excited. The future of HTML5 is new browsers.
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Post » Thu May 31, 2012 8:12 pm

I think it all comes down to business reasons that will truly excite people. Maybe newbs will be more excited, but you'll capture a lot more serious professionals that have demanding clients if you create a build functionality using flash canvas.

As you may have saw, I got sound working very well using Sound Manager 2. Here's the latest link:
http://mcgraw-hill.faceyspacey.com/rocket-blast-3-v12

And I'm on the verge of solving the flickering completely by injecting the images into the flash canvas swf using loadImage(), which the swf than caches. I.e. I'm pretty sure the flickering is happening cuz of the loading of content.

Ultimately, the user experience in this particular game is nearly as good as the HTML5 one. The space blasters demo I did, which is very fast, also works very well.

So maybe it wont support all the cool new upcoming features, but brother most the games in your arcade will work using flash canvas just fine.

Your platform is perfect kids' education games, and all publishers in that world require it to work in IE<9. ALL OF THEM! And will for 3-5 more years. That's just the deal in the public US k-12 education system, and probably k-12 everywhere.

There is big money here, and you're missing out on a huge opportunity. I've concocted a very solid solution here. Maybe it doesn't support 100% of the things you can do with C2, but it does support the 80% most common use cases. I'm getting a lot of help from the developer of Flash Canvas. I'm sure we can improve it more for the needs of C2. You go to great lengths in various articles you've published to state how C2 works in like 24 environments (i.e. in your benchmarks article). I'm not sure why you don't want to add such a large percentage of computers to your roster, specifically a percentage that could end up being disproportionately large in terms of the total C2 game players if the education market took a liking to your platform, which they could and will, especially after I make 200 games with your platform for one of the biggest textbook publishers. Like, 10-15% use IE<9 below on most sites, but in the education market it's between 30-50%.

I honestly may be interested in funding this stuff being added to your build process. I know you have your path, and tons of cool stuff you want to do. So this is just annoying bullsh*t. But dude, C2 is literally made to make the sort of learning games I'm making for young kids. It's a perfect fit. I mean what if an entire school district or textbook publisher came to you and said they wanted to make C2 the exclusive tool for making their games, and they'll bring a ton of developers to start using it, what would you say?

It would only be good for C2, and much of the work, research and testing will have already been done so you just need to generate more pristine less hacky and more integrated versions of the code I got.

I know it goes against the mission statement you've been sharing with the world for so long, but if it's working tight enough, and doesn't take much time for you to integrate, I don't know how you can deny it as a smart business decision. If it took tons of time, fine, i get it. But this may actually be extremely easy for you. For example, here's all the code I needed to add (besides the library) to make SoundManager2 work with its hidden swf:

http://jsfiddle.net/7Uvm9/

and of course I have conditional HTML tags triggering this only for IE. Check the source here:
http://mcgraw-hill.faceyspacey.com/rocket-blast-3-v12
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