Idea for a future construct

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:31 pm

So Ashley's going to have to figure out a way to do scripting for the edit time.
Will this be using event logic as well?
Image ImageImage
B
169
S
50
G
174
Posts: 8,327
Reputation: 110,798

Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:56 pm

I like @Somebody 's idea of having the object parameters exposed and manipulated visually with nodes. It's like having all attributes available from withing the editor for an initial setup state. Afterwards one could manipulate the hell out of them with events. I see no conflict here, other than more development time for the developers.

I am afraid that Lately I see @Ashley being fast to reject ideas coming from forum members. Perhaps it's just me, having no experience from other game developing forum and not being a very old member my self. I know that answering to all us is time consuming and perhaps most of the time a mundane task, and I really appreciate and honor his effort. It's just that I'm noticing either a "it can't happen" or not commenting at all policy lately.

There are many-many things that float around and probably inhabit the todo list, but here are (again) my top 5!

1) Timeline: A way to animate-timing up stuff within the layout and be able to trigger those animations with events. Perhaps this can replace the path system feature request. If not,
1.5) Path System: A way to make stuff move along a path over time, with the ability to control the position/path percentage, the curvature of the path and the easing in/out between each path point.
2) Masking: A proper masking system that allows any Sprite or Layer to mask in/out any other sprite or layer, taking into account either the opacity/alpha or the Gray-scale values.
3) 2.5D work space: Parallax offset/scale is just annoying. It happens from 0,0 coordinates and it's just unintuitive to frame/compose a complex level this way. A workspace that has z-depth and a "real" camera will allow for a natural compositing workflow.
4) Lighting system: A proper and Global lighting system that has a Diffuse-Normal-Specular setup within the Sprite Object and illuminates-casts shadows accordingly. I feel graditute for the system that we have, but it's just not there yet.
5) Audio enhancements: This is very well covered on other topics, the thing is that the audio workflow needs to be greatly improved. Synching multiple audio tracks is impossible, there are no mixing/bus tools and many-many other things that could vastly improve the outcome audio-wise

+1 for real time preview-editing!

Lastly, since this is a recurring subject, I haven't voiced my opinion about native exporters for a long time, but after seeing this on this topic, I must say WOW! This is a huge difference! I don't know about fps or any technical mumbo-jumbo, but it just feels so damn fluid and good! No jitters, no jerkiness, no wait a few seconds for the code to settle (in layman's terms), no nothing!
Anyone noticed that the mouse doesn't lag behind? In C2 can anyone manage to make "every tick---> Sprite set position | mouse.X, mouse.Y" and not having the Sprite lag behind the mouse cursor?

Anyway, I don't know which of the above fall to the "New Editor" or "New Engine" category, so I'll probably be flamed for being naive and out-of-topic. As an artist though, these are the things that stand out for me and I would like to have them in this game creation tool.
composer - multimedia artist
www.eli0s.com/en/
B
69
S
27
G
6
Posts: 1,146
Reputation: 10,379

Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:41 pm

eli0s wrote:As an artist though

I totally agree with everything else you said, including the quickdraw "meh", but the part I quoted might be the most important one - there's plenty of artists/designers who come to C2 for the ease of use - they are told "Make games without coding" and while that isn't really 100% true the most annoying aspects of real programming are taken care of which is great.

But oh so often I get the feeling that a great many things are done "for the checkmark" - as previously mentioned - we got this and this and this. Neither of which is truly fully featured. Which makes sense since a single person is making the thing - a single person cannot really be fully invested into all possible elements of making a game - be it art, sound, animation, etc.

Which is another reason to hope for some sort of a modular system that would let those who can and want to remix the systems, at least those that supplement the event system - like the image editor, animation editor, tilemaps, etc.
B
19
S
6
G
6
Posts: 1,101
Reputation: 5,646

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:59 pm

eli0s wrote:I am afraid that Lately I see @Ashley being fast to reject ideas coming from forum members. Perhaps it's just me, having no experience from other game developing forum and not being a very old member my self. I know that answering to all us is time consuming and perhaps most of the time a mundane task, and I really appreciate and honor his effort. It's just that I'm noticing either a "it can't happen" or not commenting at all policy lately.


I don't understand why Ashely have to change the design of construct2, and take the idea to have the "spaghetti"... for me is unclear when I see the line with the little windows...You can't see how the "script" works... When you make a real script, It's like writing, in construct2 you see your script very clear, you start from the top, and just write, write, write.... with "spaghetti"? (same for behaviors)

eli0s wrote:1) Timeline: A way to animate-timing up stuff within the layout and be able to trigger those animations with events. Perhaps this can replace the path system feature request. If not,

2) Masking: A proper masking system that allows any Sprite or Layer to mask in/out any other sprite or layer, taking into account either the opacity/alpha or the Gray-scale values.

+1 for real time preview-editing!



Agree with you, timeline can make simple a lot of things, but I suggest to insert a special behaviors for every obj, when you add in your object, just make a timeline on the top of the layout screen, where you can make the action "stop, play,loop and insert a specific event on it)

Masking system, it's the first thing I though when I Use construct2 at the first time, I was using flash so, you can't make a special things like flash...the best method for the sprite, where you can place sprite inside a sprite with your code, and masking everything... but I don't know how can be difficult make in construct2 (sprite in sprite)

eli0s wrote:Lastly, since this is a recurring subject, I haven't voiced my opinion about native exporters for a long time, but after seeing this on this topic, I must say WOW! This is a huge difference! I don't know about fps or any technical mumbo-jumbo, but it just feels so damn fluid and good! No jitters, no jerkiness, no wait a few seconds for the code to settle (in layman's terms), no nothing!
Anyone noticed that the mouse doesn't lag behind? In C2 can anyone manage to make "every tick---> Sprite set position | mouse.X, mouse.Y" and not having the Sprite lag behind the mouse cursor?


native export is the best solution for run a software... because when you export your project the script is "light", and java is not very good for the performance....(like flash, in my opinion), if you make a simple test, one in construct2 and another one in lua,c, or other script, the app will run better...this is one of the most reason why who want to make a BIG game, have to use others engine (like unity), where you can make your script in different way and export in native...

obviously, when you use construct2 you have to know how make everything good without waste memory or something like that...

Somebody wrote:
eli0s wrote:As an artist though

I totally agree with everything else you said, including the quickdraw "meh", but the part I quoted might be the most important one - there's plenty of artists/designers who come to C2 for the ease of use - they are told "Make games without coding" and while that isn't really 100% true the most annoying aspects of real programming are taken care of which is great.


Construct2 is the best software without coding, and the performance is very good.... In construct2 you can make a fantastic game/app/... without study a real programming, but when you use it, if you had the logic of the programmer is like a piece of cake... ask someone how is annoying just for make a sprite, animation with collision in real script :) ...in construct2 you can do it in two click, and I try a lot of software (some for fun, and some for work)...

the artist is advantaged in this case, because it's easy to make whatever someone want in construct2, and the most difficult part when you are using a visual script is the arts/music (I spend more time to think about arts and music....)
B
21
S
9
Posts: 298
Reputation: 2,967

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:47 pm

eli0s wrote:I am afraid that Lately I see @Ashley being fast to reject ideas coming from forum members.

If I see problems with suggestions, I will point them out. If people argue convincingly against me, I will consider what they say. Also as ever we get far more feature requests than we can possibly deal with, some of which are multi-month projects, so it is important to set a high bar and not get sidetracked with loads of experimental ideas that may or may not work out.

In particular new UI features are very time consuming to develop, and what is outlined here is probably several months of work. There is a great opportunity cost there, since if it doesn't work out or few people end up using it (like with multiplayer), then we've lost several months work that could have gone on something more useful.

So I can see how it might look like I'm trying to shoot everything down, but really it's how I test ideas to see if they're worthwhile.
Scirra Founder
B
398
S
236
G
88
Posts: 24,428
Reputation: 194,625

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:06 pm

Ashley wrote:So I can see how it might look like I'm trying to shoot everything down, but really it's how I test ideas to see if they're worthwhile.


So we can assume you see no merit in the often-mentioned Boolean global variables idea? (As one simple example of decent ideas from users that haven't seen any response). If so, why?
B
19
S
6
G
6
Posts: 1,101
Reputation: 5,646

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:12 pm

@Somebody

Ashley has always said this was an oversight and is on the todo list.

Last time he said this was here: https://www.scirra.com/forum/suggestion-allow-for-span-class-posthilit-boolean-span-span-class-p_p680516?#p680516

One can only assume it was pushed down the list, or it's just been forgotten about.
If your vision so exceeds your ability, then look to something closer.
Moderator
B
134
S
30
G
86
Posts: 5,419
Reputation: 59,524

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:16 pm

For 603 days at least? :shock:
B
19
S
6
G
6
Posts: 1,101
Reputation: 5,646

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:13 pm

@Ribis
@Ashley

I am not saying that Ashley should adopt Somebody 's node based idea. I find it to be a cool feature, after seeing R0J0's example even more, but I understand that not everybody think like this and if Ashley says that this is something that will take several months of work just for this a debatable issue, then I trust his know-how about it.

My point entering this conversation was this feel about stuff that have been mentioned-proposed by forum members and either were shot down or not even had addressed for. I can't be an intelligent arguer about the Timeline feature for example, since I don't know anything about the IDE and how software (C2) is developed. So if Ashley argues about the Timeline being a time consuming feature to implement, I can't say it isn't, I'll just be greatly disappointed, because I believe that it's something that should be a default feature-set within a game creation software. Same goes with all the things I mention in my previous post. Again, I don't know if these are feasible or not, the only thing I can argue about is their usefulness (imo) as workflow tools and game development features.

Also, not having an official todo list is causing an uncertainty about the future of C2 and what can we expect from it. There are many-many things that have been mentioned before and now they lay shattered around the forum, it's too hard to keep track for. The global Boolean is one thing, an other is the ability to choose between the two Shift keys on the keyboard etc... Add all those little things together and we have a huge list of potentially useful features. But now there is the talk about C3 which only implies that C2 has reached its development limit, at least feature-wise, and there are so many things that haven't been addressed or answered yet.

I wish the best for the development of C3 and when the time comes I will support it, I just wish that it will cover the ground on those areas that have been mentioned before. I strongly believe that the todo list should be made into an official forum topic and then a poll can be made in order to evaluate the top features that must be included in the next Construct version. This list should have filtered out things that are not feasible by design however, that way we'll keep the expectations within the realm of reality.

Anyway, sorry for this long post.
composer - multimedia artist
www.eli0s.com/en/
B
69
S
27
G
6
Posts: 1,146
Reputation: 10,379

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:46 pm

eli0s wrote:Also, not having an official todo list is causing an uncertainty about the future of C2 and what can we expect from it.


How about Scirra make a public todo where features can be upvoted or downvoted, but the votes have a "weight" based on the users rep, for example. Having a paid license doubles your rep. That may just be a way to avoid the sour MP experience and actually prioritise the features the real community (and not a single person - as talented that person may be) consider important/beneficial? And if a talented dev comes out of hiding and says "well, I feel gimped with this rep system" - if they have a project to show allot a certain rep for that as well - probably wouldn't be that much different from the daily mod activities.
B
19
S
6
G
6
Posts: 1,101
Reputation: 5,646

PreviousNext

Return to Construct 2 General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 18 guests