I'm worried about the future.

Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:32 pm

lamar wrote:
helena wrote:Grandfather? For me it is Klik&Play, I used it so much back in mid 90s something. It is same company as the Fusion now and you can see similarity still.

And as for drag&drop game maker, it is too limiting in my humble opinion and would just make cookie cutter games. Again, in my opinion. Of course if you are going to make pretty graphics and have basic game idea that is same as existing then it will work.

But if you have novel idea (of new game style/engine) it will be very limiting quickly.



What do you think you do with C2 but use built in effects and behaviors that they designed in?

You just set the effect and behaviors and the engine does the rest. You don't create new effects or behaviors in C2 just use them through the settings.

That is just a natural progression to where game design is headed.


Actually there are some people that won't use any ready-made behaviour at all for the game engine (movements, logic). :) My game for example. :)

What I like with construct2's event sheets is that you can make quite advanced coding there. (I just wish that there's alternative output other than HTML5, native exporters etc etc but this is futile wish)
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:43 pm

Cryptwalker wrote:
lamar wrote:I foresee the future to be drag and drop 2D and 3D game creation.

You will choose from a plethora of of 2D or 3D characters and objects with pre-programmed but modifiable behaviors and effects and you will choose your layout, effects and scenery and type of game and just drop them in place and the engine does the rest.

No event scripting and just modify object settings for how you want them to behave.
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That would open up game design to many more artists that have no interest in programming or writing events.


Next thing you know is we'll have a game engine app that only requires you to push a button to make an awesome game and it'll do it. No other effort needed.



If you are as old as I am and designed games using programming languages like BASIC then today's engines are an example of your button to create a great game scenario.

The engines took all the hard work out of creating coding routines and hides them in the background so people can concentrate on the artistic factors without even understanding the codes that make the game work.

As we move forward more artistic people with no programming experience and no desire to learn event scripting will become involved in game design and the engines will accommodate by integrating all event scripting into simple settings sheets. C2 is an example and all sprite behaviors and effects are set through a settings selection list.

That will be enhanced in future game engines with lots of new effects and behaviors and event scripting will be simplified to the point any creative person can create great games.

Amazon released Lumberyard it's own game engine with that in mind.

ADDED: Tooting my own horn here to provide an example of visual game design. In my signature is a link to my platform sandbox. Still early Beta but with that anyone can create a very playable platform game by just dragging and dropping components and effect change boxes on to the playfield.

No event scripting and it is all visual game design. I will be adding more effects and behaviors as I progress but you can add day and night, rain and snow and set enemies to move where you want. The plan is to have a simple settings box so more advanced designers can tweak sprite settings to do just what they want. I will also add the ability to upload your own sprites and tiles so artists can go crazy.

That is where I see game design engines going.
Last edited by lamar on Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:25 pm

@lamar
The problem with relying too much on out of the box type engines is that all the games using them are cookie cutter stuff. If you are a fan of that stuff - perhaps you might like rpg maker. It still supports plugins - very similarly to construct2 - written in javascript.
But all games made with it - look like they are made with it.

With the case of a level editor type engines - it is obviously a level editor. That is a huge difference from a game engine.
Construct is a game engine, because you can set the design of your game and be specific.
A level editor only allows you to set the layout of levels, not the design.

In Construct you have reusable out of the box logic in the toolbox - game objects with builtin functions.
But such is the case with most other game engines out there.
Fusion 3, godot 3 and construct3 all have premade game logic that the programmer can use to build custom games design. Out of the three Godot has the largest number of objects - called nodes there.
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:38 pm

blurymind wrote:@lamar
The problem with relying too much on out of the box type engines is that all the games using them are cookie cutter stuff. If you are a fan of that stuff - perhaps you might like rpg maker. It still supports plugins - very similarly to construct2 - written in javascript.
But all games made with it - look like they are made with it.

With the case of a level editor type engines - it is obviously a level editor. That is a huge difference from a game engine.
Construct is a game engine, because you can set the design of your game and be specific.
A level editor only allows you to set the layout of levels, not the design.

In Construct you have reusable out of the box logic in the toolbox - game objects with builtin functions.
But such is the case with most other game engines out there.
Fusion 3, godot 3 and construct3 all have premade game logic that the programmer can use to build custom games design. Out of the three Godot has the largest number of objects - called nodes there.



Maybe you missed the part where I said users can upload their own sprites and tiles and tweak settings of those using a simple settings box..

A game engine like C2 and all others do the same thing using settings for all sprites and tiles now but still requires a level of scripting events and all the code is hidden from the user while I have removed the scripting events and use C2 in the background to make it all visual design which is desired by creative people and artists.

I believe that is the next logical progression in game design engines.
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:46 pm

@lamar setting sprites and how it looks like is not really game design.
The design of the game is where you establish the rules of its world, the conditions of things to happen.

A level editor will lock you to a genre, because the game loop can't be changed. For example you can't make a top down game with your platformer level editor. You can't add new mechanics to it - such as shooting or new types of enemy behavior.
As a result a game made in it - is not a new game. It's just a level
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:54 pm

blurymind wrote:@lamar setting sprites and how it looks like is not really game design.
The design of the game is where you establish the rules of its world, the conditions of things to happen.

A level editor will lock you to a genre, because the game loop can't be changed. For example you can't make a top down game with your platformer level editor. You can't add new mechanics to it - such as shooting or new types of enemy behavior.
As a result a game made in it - is not a new game. It's just a level



You seem to be missing the big picture sorry. I can expand that same model of visual design to any game genre including RPG, shooting or something you create yourself. and that can all be packaged with one game engine like C2 running in the background.

Because of the memory limits of the arcade my sandbox is limited to platform design but the final product will include RPG design and other genre's and all can be modified very specifically to your design desires.

The basics of all game designs revolve around setting sprite effects and behaviors and setting the mood of the game through music, sound effects and graphics and engines are all just there to process the routine events you selected.

ADDED: Unlike a level editor the sandbox designer will allow you to incorporate any game genre into the same game and you can start as a platformer that evolves into an RPG with side missions using first person shooting or some other genre and it will all be in the same game with smoothe transitions from one genre to another.

It is a visual based toolbox for game designers with room to add new behaviors and effects when ever they are created for the game engine.
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:47 pm

lamar wrote:
blurymind wrote:@lamar setting sprites and how it looks like is not really game design.
The design of the game is where you establish the rules of its world, the conditions of things to happen.

A level editor will lock you to a genre, because the game loop can't be changed. For example you can't make a top down game with your platformer level editor. You can't add new mechanics to it - such as shooting or new types of enemy behavior.
As a result a game made in it - is not a new game. It's just a level



You seem to be missing the big picture sorry. I can expand that same model of visual design to any game genre including RPG, shooting or something you create yourself. and that can all be packaged with one game engine like C2 running in the background.

Because of the memory limits of the arcade my sandbox is limited to platform design but the final product will include RPG design and other genre's and all can be modified very specifically to your design desires.

The basics of all game designs revolve around setting sprite effects and behaviors and setting the mood of the game through music, sound effects and graphics and engines are all just there to process the routine events you selected.

ADDED: Unlike a level editor the sandbox designer will allow you to incorporate any game genre into the same game and you can start as a platformer that evolves into an RPG with side missions using first person shooting or some other genre and it will all be in the same game with smoothe transitions from one genre to another.

It is a visual based toolbox for game designers with room to add new behaviors and effects when ever they are created for the game engine.

Wait there for a second. Are you by any chance talking about something you made/making?
Is the sandbox some tool that you are building? :)
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:58 pm

blurymind wrote:
lamar wrote:
blurymind wrote:@lamar setting sprites and how it looks like is not really game design.
The design of the game is where you establish the rules of its world, the conditions of things to happen.

A level editor will lock you to a genre, because the game loop can't be changed. For example you can't make a top down game with your platformer level editor. You can't add new mechanics to it - such as shooting or new types of enemy behavior.
As a result a game made in it - is not a new game. It's just a level



You seem to be missing the big picture sorry. I can expand that same model of visual design to any game genre including RPG, shooting or something you create yourself. and that can all be packaged with one game engine like C2 running in the background.

Because of the memory limits of the arcade my sandbox is limited to platform design but the final product will include RPG design and other genre's and all can be modified very specifically to your design desires.

The basics of all game designs revolve around setting sprite effects and behaviors and setting the mood of the game through music, sound effects and graphics and engines are all just there to process the routine events you selected.

ADDED: Unlike a level editor the sandbox designer will allow you to incorporate any game genre into the same game and you can start as a platformer that evolves into an RPG with side missions using first person shooting or some other genre and it will all be in the same game with smoothe transitions from one genre to another.

It is a visual based toolbox for game designers with room to add new behaviors and effects when ever they are created for the game engine.

Wait there for a second. Are you by any chance talking about something you made/making?
Is the sandbox some tool that you are building? :)


I thought I made that clear in an earlier post that I am working on a visual based game sandbox now in Beta testing and that is where I see game design engines headed.

The OP topic was the future of game design engines and I used my visual based design sandbox for an example of where I see the future of Game design headed.

If you want to see it in action the link is in my signature and it is in the arcade and uses C2 as the background engine.
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:12 pm

I'm finding it difficult to understand the relevance of this 'tit-for-tat' debate over the history of game engines to the OP.
If your vision so exceeds your ability, then look to something closer.
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Post » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:27 pm

@zenox98 You are right, this thread is going way off topic. :) I wanted to say that the future is not dark, because game development is becoming more and more accessible - to OP. More choice of engines, better engines and ways to publish your game.
@lamar then jumped on the opportunity to start plugging his tool by making the point that what he is doing with it is the general direction of where things are going in gamedev.
The truth is that OP is concerned about the licensing model of the potential that one day he will not be able to open his construct3 projects, because construct3 is a tool that exists in the cloud - and it periodically checks with scirra if the subscription is paid. Thus is one day the servers go down, his offline copy will stop working and his projects will be dead
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