Layer effect behavior changed in recent releases?

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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:48 am

Am I right in thinking that previously adding layer effects worked on empty layers, essentially effecting everything below? Was this changed for the newer releases? I vaguely recall playing around with blur and glow shaders on a layer above all the others to get a nice working bloom effect, but now it doesn't seem to work (possibly changed in the most recent or the previous release).

I could have sworn it worked before though. If it has been changed, is this intentional or accidental, and can we expect to see it back at some point?
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:01 am

I haven't touched any of the layer effect code for months myself, so I don't see why this would have suddenly changed. Have you got a before/after .cap that demonstrates an actual difference? Are you sure you're not setting it up wrong?
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:32 am

[quote="Ashley":kn4xdv24]I haven't touched any of the layer effect code for months myself, so I don't see why this would have suddenly changed. Have you got a before/after .cap that demonstrates an actual difference? Are you sure you're not setting it up wrong?[/quote:kn4xdv24]

Well I have been up all night again, so the latter is quite possible :P Maybe I was working on a single layer and thought I'd done it on an empty layer above or something, it was a while back now while I was still getting used to the UI. Damn :\
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:07 am

Well, make a .cap in an early version, load it in 0.99.7, and if anything's different, put the .cap on the tracker with the usual details (repro/expected/result).
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:35 pm

[quote="Lost my Keys":g07imq9z]Am I right in thinking that previously adding layer effects worked on empty layers, essentially effecting everything below? [/quote:g07imq9z]
No, it was never like this. For a full screen post process effect pass, go with a canvas, with grab layout before drawing.
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:49 pm

[quote="Ashley":r1qwxe2n]Well, make a .cap in an early version, load it in 0.99.7, and if anything's different, put the .cap on the tracker with the usual details (repro/expected/result).[/quote:r1qwxe2n]

Nah it's cool. If you say you haven't touched it then I must have imagined I did it that way and was more than likely using just one layer. If it had been possible and suddenly wasn't, I'm sure lots of others would have mentioned it by now too. So yeah, I'll have got it wrong, sorry :\

[quote="Davioware":r1qwxe2n][quote="Lost my Keys":r1qwxe2n]Am I right in thinking that previously adding layer effects worked on empty layers, essentially effecting everything below? [/quote:r1qwxe2n]
No, it was never like this. For a full screen post process effect pass, go with a canvas, with grab layout before drawing.[/quote:r1qwxe2n]

Had a go trying that, couldn't get it to grab the screen (I think I was using -after- drawing though, so will give it another try when I get back), is there anything special that needs to be done? Are there any limits to it? For example can the canvas grab everything below it, including other effects.
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:13 pm

[quote="Lost my Keys":3mkvlyk2]For example can the canvas grab everything below it, including other effects.[/quote:3mkvlyk2]
Yep, and this is what Davioware meant, for fullscreen effect processing. You want to set it to grab the layout before drawing (it means "grab layout before drawing the canvas"). That means it works like this:
Layout (everything beneath the canvas) is fully drawn
Canvas takes a snapshot of that
Canvas processes an effect (assuming you added one) and draws on top of everything
End result: you see everything with an effect applied.

'Grab after drawing' means it takes a snapshot after the canvas has already drawn itself. That's useful for frame feedback effects, such as an effect mixing the previous frame and the current frame (usually the canvas has to be semitransparent for that to work).
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:25 pm

[quote="Ashley":seutleck][quote="Lost my Keys":seutleck]For example can the canvas grab everything below it, including other effects.[/quote:seutleck]
Yep, and this is what Davioware meant, for fullscreen effect processing. You want to set it to grab the layout before drawing (it means "grab layout before drawing the canvas"). That means it works like this:
Layout (everything beneath the canvas) is fully drawn
Canvas takes a snapshot of that
Canvas processes an effect (assuming you added one) and draws on top of everything
End result: you see everything with an effect applied.

'Grab after drawing' means it takes a snapshot after the canvas has already drawn itself. That's useful for frame feedback effects, such as an effect mixing the previous frame and the current frame (usually the canvas has to be semitransparent for that to work).[/quote:seutleck]

Yep got back a few minutes ago and gave it a try soon as I sat down, worked perfectly! I'm using that bloom effect you posted way back actually, the blur horizontal x2 / vertical x2 + glow. Looks really nice. Plus having it on it's own layer makes adding options to turn the effect on and off, really simple.

I also noticed the canvas bug where using different size canvases with a pre-drawn texture ends up with it removing entire chunks of it, doesn't happen at all when grabbing the layout. So making a canvas of only 8x8 and stretching it to fill the entire display works great! Doesn't effect the quality at all, but runs much faster and uses barely any extra VRAM! :)
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:39 pm

[quote="Lost my Keys":2qgysdeo]So making a canvas of only 8x8 and stretching it to fill the entire display works great! Doesn't effect the quality at all, but runs much faster and uses barely any extra VRAM! :)[/quote:2qgysdeo]
Sort of - a canvas always uses as much VRAM as the size of the canvas itself - it's needed for pixel by pixel processing on the canvas. You are saving the VRAM of the source texture that way, but don't think you're getting all that for free! I said before, I recommend you don't make canvases larger than the size of the window.
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Post » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:18 pm

[quote="Ashley":1rq13wgi][quote="Lost my Keys":1rq13wgi]So making a canvas of only 8x8 and stretching it to fill the entire display works great! Doesn't effect the quality at all, but runs much faster and uses barely any extra VRAM! :)[/quote:1rq13wgi]
Sort of - a canvas always uses as much VRAM as the size of the canvas itself - it's needed for pixel by pixel processing on the canvas. You are saving the VRAM of the source texture that way, but don't think you're getting all that for free! I said before, I recommend you don't make canvases larger than the size of the window.[/quote:1rq13wgi]

Awww :D But yeah, with using the canvas this way, keeping it tiny and resizing it up to the size of the display would be fine, and in the next version, using it for the digging holes in a terrain thing, using smaller tiles would work well enough I would think too. :)
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