Leaving C2 for awhile. My opinions and thoughts.

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:37 am

[QUOTE=Tobye]Everyone wants to make multiplayer games, and currently they can't. Not many people want to collaborate, but they can. So modularity is clearly a second place here, although a massively important second place.)[/QUOTE]@Tobye I'd argue against that. WebSockets right now allow the majority of multiplayer to be implemented. While it's not an "everyone can do it" kind of deal, it's not no one can, it's just that there are next to no resources and little (but not no) help on how to start a server with, say, Nodejs and create a connection between it and a Construct 2 client. With a little effort I've managed to at least create a server that sent messages to the client which sent messages back. It's incredibly rudimentary, but the system is available, just that few people seem to be posting their results and actively experimenting (and honestly I'm guilty as well).

(Just no one pull that "WebSockets" aren't adequate for a real-time game" crap, I'm currently volunteering for an HTML5 Nodejs game that is using them for just that. Maybe not be the best for large-scale MMORPGs, but it does work for real-time.)

In my opinion, modularity should be before multiplayer, and then maybe more users could put forth the work into community multiplayer efforts; that multiplayer will benefit far more from modularity if modularity is implemented first.
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:38 am

[QUOTE=DatapawWolf]
In my opinion, modularity should be before multiplayer, and then maybe more users could put forth the work into community multiplayer efforts; that multiplayer will benefit far more from modularity if modularity is implemented first.[/QUOTE]
Project Lead of Zems Online Card Game

Producer at Impulse Limited
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:08 am

Modulairty before Mulitplayer. Even once MP comes out it's going to be simple P2P. Much of the advanced stuff is still going to be on the developer heads. Think of the Web Audio Api that C2 uses.

Modulairty will allow better community shared developement where as of this moment now. It's going to be the same problems. Everyone needs to start from near ground zero and build up on there own. And when some one does share it's going to be forgotten or lost.

Asset store + Modularity is the key for growth.

Also on a note. There is no reason that MP can't be done now. As the prior poster noted he is doing so NOW. I wrote a Photon Plugin in one day and ran a very servicible top down shooter. I can run my server now and we can play NOW. there is no need to wait for later when the tools are around NOW. It's just no one will use them for various reasons.

Don't get me wrong. i will see peoples capx and help them out and they will be filled with plugins. But then I have to have spend the time installing these plugins manually :( or the helpee needs to remove them :(.. where as an integrated module asset store could allow a download of such plugins(if allowed) and this becomes less inconvient.

Modulairty should have highest priority.

edit:
I agree with Datawolfpad. Websockets are fine for real time games. That lie needs to end. TCP isn't good for real-time competative shooters and Stree Fighter like games. Everything else can get away with it. Heck most RTS online games still run TCP.

edit again:
Here is the thread I started last month for the call
http://www.scirra.com/forum/suggestion-a-call-for-modularity_topic79249.html
I still stand by this :Djayderyu2013-12-10 07:11:24
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:13 am

Would be great if you could simply export an eventsheet(s) or export layout(s) (automatically taking the resources such as variables and or objects along)

And upon import have it check the differences like with svn.
A side by side coomparision of differences in codes and objects.
And with a click of a button import parts (events or objects) or with another click have it accept all the changes.

That would greatly aid working together/collaberation.
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:43 am

@DatapawWolf - And I rebuke! ;) So far multiplayer requires coding to some degree. The fact that 'not everyone can do it' is against the mission statement of Scirra and excludes the bulk of their users. If you don't mind dealing with websockets you won't mind using Unity, so why use Construct? There is no argument that modularity would be awesome, but as long as a massive feature like multiplayer is still absent from events, it needs to take second place.

I could go on about it for hours, but honestly I see it as plain as that, need over want.

@lennaert - why not just use an SVN?
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:50 am

[[email protected]]
@lennaert - why not just use an SVN?[/QUOTE]

For me personally, I dont need it.

But in general to the topic at hand:

Its not "from" construct 2, and ltos of indies with look at it with terrified eyes not udnerstanding what it is and what it can do ...

svn is just the server element of it, it requires configured clients with network conectivity etc etc etc ...

For some, a piece of cake ... for the vast majority using construct 2, abracadabra.

Having something like an importer exporter included in your tool will make it far more accisble and a lower bar to cross when starting out with it.

There are so many options for svn like methods, but being able to select 1 or multiple events, sheets, or objects or layouts from you familair tool, exported to a single file on your desktop which can just as easily be imported or emailed or placed in a dropbox, that would add to the freindly user interface/usage construct 2 has already been offering.
lennaert2013-12-10 07:50:23
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:04 am

Modularity not only helps in collaboration, but everyone. I was always using oop software, where you structure your code in modules, just like the good old term "black box": You develop it once, store it somewhere and access it from any of your projects. No need to re-invent the wheel - and that's the bad thing about C2. You're forced to do all those standards that you use in your projects over and over again.
Sharing those snippets is a great side-effect, but imagine the decrease in development time for yourself in future projects. You actively help decreasing the time with any module you can store to create your own (or shared) library of algorithms, functions, helper code, etc.

Of course this is nothing new to Ashley. He's working with such software to develop C2. And so he might also see the amount of work and time it will cost to implement it. So much time, that C2 wouldn't grow on features during the time, which isn't good for selling arguments.

Yes, modularity is the most important thing right now. The sooner it comes, the faster the community output will grow. And that is also a great argument to sell a software ;)
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:07 am

@lennaert - Yeah I see what you mean, but I'm saying that it's not magic at all and the difficulty level is vastly less than you imagine. Really, it just takes a minute. The lack of selling this is a fault of Scirra. Even though they wrote a good tutorial on it, it does look so big and daunting.

I do see how it being a lack of 'from Scirra' is a bad thing, it did turn me off for ages. But that is a cultural thing too, if every search for collaboration was full of 'so simple!' and it was on the front page when you visited Scirra, people wouldn't shy away from it. Again, as with a lot of Scirra's issues, this could be bettered with improved website organisation.

Also someone wrote here about being able to mess around with the UI (sorry couldn't find it again) - this is actually my dream ^^ I have such extensive engines and transporting them between projects is easy, but I want to make it easier for my team to use by making pop-ups, increasing the height of variable entry fields, etc.. But, I can see that's not a priority.
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:14 am

@tulamide - It's nothing new to anyone ;) It would be fantastic. But I said my piece and really have nothing new to add.

Except! The new Ludumdare is coming up, anyone want to try making something? @DrewMelton - I could do with some sound and art, 3 days to trial some teamwork ;) @lennaert - can try out an SVN! C'mon community, let's be a community :P
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Post » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:18 am

@Tobye

I have seen so many people go apenuts over something as simple as setting up a client ...

when I look in the "how to" section, ... and see some request about certain minor problems .... I can imagine the ranting newbs will do with their hands in their hair throwing fits cos they dont understand :)

For instance, an issue I ran into when direting iterns for a company I worked for as head IT, was that manuals I created to instruct them became outdated pretty fast. (program updates etc etc) and the level of easyness from a tutorial/guide was suddenly undone, untill the documents got updated.

Here is why I think having an integrated something will help out greatly, as it would be part of the tool, with its own continously updating manual.   :)

Ah well, so many options ....



On a side note:

Recently with the updated group naming system, when I need to copy something from on project version to another version, I benefit greatly how it adds numbers to the group names.

Since I place near everything in a group, I can simply copy an entire group right below the other, and simply move parts from the copied/imported group to the other, eventually deleting the added group.

Been working great the last few days :)
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