Looking for an alternative of C2 (with coding)

Chat about anything not covered in these forums, but keep it civil!

Post » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:08 pm

Hello,

I have recently got lots of problems with C2, and have more been learning limitation of the engine than actually scripting.
I'm not saying C2 is bad, it's good but for some complicated stuff that needs to be really pixel and millisecond precise i need to have a greater control.

I have found a whole lot of engines:
http://www.slant.co/topics/341/~what-is ... ame-engine

I really want a good one, coding is not a problem, I prefer a good engine with some coding than less coding and performance breaks.

I want to be able to export ios/androit mainly but also html5 if possible. And yeah priority to the open source.

I like several engines:
Unity Engine (tho you have to pay 1500 E to be able to export to ios so it's not an option) C# is not a problem, i can learn it.

There is also V-Play which seems to be nice (but Lua stuff)
ImpactJS ..hmm i like it but i would like to test it before. I have the feeling it's only limited to platforms. Like in construct, once you try to do a physics game it's not as efficient as it should be.

And my favourite!
I would like to hear from you.

Game Closure http://www.gameclosure.com/ Seems promising and free but entirely code with a nice in browser interface.

What do you think?
B
12
S
4
G
1
Posts: 241
Reputation: 1,699

Post » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:59 pm

What platform?
You'll have a problem finding anything that can be accurate to the millisecond.
Image ImageImage
B
168
S
50
G
164
Posts: 8,227
Reputation: 105,573

Post » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:44 pm

Why would you need anything to be accurate to the millisecond? Games generally only run at 60 fps max because most screens only run at 60 fps max. Accurate to the millisecond would be running at 1000 fps. Even if you used an engine that decoupled the logic from the rendering, you'd still be using a crazy amount of CPU power for something that you could most likely achieve at 60 fps too.

Also, I don't believe game closure's claim of getting native speed out of html5/JavaScript at all. Maybe on the rendering side, sure, but on the logic side? No way. Many huge companies have put incredible efforts towards that goal and no one has achieved it. Besides, you would still be using the same tech C2 uses (html5/JavaScript - so impactjs would also have the same problem), just coding yourself instead, so it would have the same performance issues - and possibly more of them, if you don't know how to avoid Javascript's issues that can hit performance, which C2 takes care of for you (I don't know if game closure or impactjs do anything to help with keeping from generating garbage or such, for example).

More info: https://www.scirra.com/blog/52/construc ... javascript
Moderator
B
94
S
33
G
33
Posts: 3,006
Reputation: 27,744

Post » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:28 am

If you want to do 2d and aren't scared of code, I would recommend GMS, Cocos-X or Godot engine(which is in beta but also does 3d). As much as I love C2, it has been limiting what I want to do and I have been moving projects to some other engines. Though I will still use C2 for html5 games for sure, nothing beats it there!

If you are doing 3d then you can't go wrong with Unity or UE4, and I wouldn't really consider anything else at this stage, except maybe the new Shiva when it is released. I am actually finishing off my first 3d Android game using a small open source engine called ZgameEditor. http://www.zgameeditor.org/index.php

ZGE is fairly basic, but quite similar to GMS in its structure and scripting language. No layout editor at the moment, but it is planned. The main thing I am loving about it is how easy it is to export and test your apk, especially considering the nightmare that it is with C2. As always...horses for courses... :)
B
11
S
2
G
1
Posts: 108
Reputation: 1,899

Post » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:44 am

Arima wrote:Also, I don't believe game closure's claim of getting native speed out of html5/JavaScript at all. Maybe on the rendering side, sure, but on the logic side? No way. Many huge companies have put incredible efforts towards that goal and no one has achieved it. Besides, you would still be using the same tech C2 uses (html5/JavaScript - so impactjs would also have the same problem), just coding yourself instead, so it would have the same performance issues - and possibly more of them, if you don't know how to avoid Javascript's issues that can hit performance, which C2 takes care of for you (I don't know if game closure or impactjs do anything to help with keeping from generating garbage or such, for example)


What i've understood is that they have native speed while exporting on ios (which is done with one command by the way).

I am not against visual interface and help from the framework. But to give an example, I had to abandon 2 projects because one of them required complex AI logic which was a way too heavy to do with events. It was an action script seek and kill with multiple floors with ladders and multiple enemies.
It took about 2 hours to build a logic, which was buggy by the way because C2's behaviors didn't fit the style, and most of the time was spent on clicking. You may say yeah you can create your personnal plugins and stuff. Well okay but basically it should not happen, C2 is too unspecific (or maybe just too specific to suit all of my needs)

Another bug was happening with physics behavior where you had to move a ball in a labyrinth. Sometimes you've had to rotate at 90° the labyrinth with the ball in it and strangely the ball was falling through occasionally.

Another one where i wanted to use pathfinding behavior with disabled diagonals pathfinding, well in the beginning this went as it should but the movement wasn't straight at the end. The enemy was turning a bit, which my client didn't want. And programming all this with events is a pain in the ass.

Recent project. Where the collision with a trigger should have been spawning an object and moving it along other ones to make the transition seamless. Well there were gaps, that meaned that construct doesn't have a good collision detection for this purpose.

I mean common you can do simple games. But it's a pain in the ass for big ones and complicated ( physically, logically..)


I don't want to write all the code. But it's anyway better to write code while learning stuff than being stuck in the engine limitations.
B
12
S
4
G
1
Posts: 241
Reputation: 1,699

Post » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:47 am

And i am looking a soft for mac mainly.
B
12
S
4
G
1
Posts: 241
Reputation: 1,699

Post » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:08 am

Sounds more like the behaviors are whats limiting you.
Image ImageImage
B
168
S
50
G
164
Posts: 8,227
Reputation: 105,573

Post » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:50 am

vagaev wrote:What i've understood is that they have native speed while exporting on ios (which is done with one command by the way).


It doesn't matter what platform. Apple, before iOS 8, didn't even allow jit compilation of JavaScript in anything but safari. It would have been big, big news in the web development community if someone had found a way to get JavaScript to run as fast as native. Their claim may be true for rendering speeds, but for logic speed it is simply false.

vagaev wrote:I am not against visual interface and help from the framework. But to give an example, I had to abandon 2 projects because one of them required complex AI logic which was a way too heavy to do with events. It was an action script seek and kill with multiple floors with ladders and multiple enemies.
It took about 2 hours to build a logic, which was buggy by the way because C2's behaviors didn't fit the style, and most of the time was spent on clicking. You may say yeah you can create your personnal plugins and stuff. Well okay but basically it should not happen, C2 is too unspecific (or maybe just too specific to suit all of my needs)

Another bug was happening with physics behavior where you had to move a ball in a labyrinth. Sometimes you've had to rotate at 90° the labyrinth with the ball in it and strangely the ball was falling through occasionally.

Another one where i wanted to use pathfinding behavior with disabled diagonals pathfinding, well in the beginning this went as it should but the movement wasn't straight at the end. The enemy was turning a bit, which my client didn't want. And programming all this with events is a pain in the ass.


If the behaviors aren't working for you, you can customize the behavior with events. You can also use events rather than needing to go as far as making your own plugin. If you think making it with events instead of behaviors is difficult, writing it all from scratch in code is much harder. Also, two hours on ai really is not much at all. AI is notoriously difficult no matter what you code with. AAA games with millions of dollars put into them sometimes struggle with it too. It is extremely likely that C2 is capable of what you're trying to do, but you're trying to tackle something more difficult than you can manage with your current level of experience with C2. I did the same thing with the first version of my rpg, loot pursuit.

vagaev wrote:Recent project. Where the collision with a trigger should have been spawning an object and moving it along other ones to make the transition seamless. Well there were gaps, that meaned that construct doesn't have a good collision detection for this purpose.


I posted in your thread, that problem was incorrect math, it didn't have anything to do with collision detection.

vagaev wrote:I mean common you can do simple games. But it's a pain in the ass for big ones and complicated ( physically, logically..)


C2 is plenty capable of making large and complex games, I've been making two and it works fine for them. It does require knowing how to use the program well, though, but the same will be true of whatever framework you use. Large complex projects need to be designed correctly to remain manageable in C2, C++ and everything else.

You might like typing code more than making events, but I assure you, you will encounter similar problems writing code directly.
Moderator
B
94
S
33
G
33
Posts: 3,006
Reputation: 27,744


Return to Open Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: talmadman and 1 guest