Native Desktop Exporter for Construct 3

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:05 am

Native exporters (both desktop and mobile) are useless. Around 2016 JavaScript will be perfect for all kind of games. Maybe even Chromium jittering issues will be fixed. And micro-stuttering (related to garbage collection?) too. We just need more patience :)
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:29 am

Unfortunately with C2/3's scope and target, the native export IS nw.js (with asm.js support for added efficiency)

If you're looking for a native DX exporter of some sort, it's not a goal as that would practically double the workload of getting things to work as it would have to translate the XML into a working form of another language other than JavaScript.
A way to get around that of course is a wrapper, which would basically just be a personalized version of what nw.js does, but with less features and more bugs.

It looks like Construct2/3 will stick with html5/javascript and because of that the only viable solution is nw.js

If you didn't know anything about the game and how it's made you'd think it was native
Much like you'd think a Valve Source Engine game running on a mac is Native (instead of directly calling OpenGL it uses a DX Wrapper)
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:44 am

To be completely honest, I had a childish fantasy when looking for Game Making Engines that don't code but events that I would eventually find one that was exactly like Construct 2 but its code was in C++ or C# or perhaps Python (this was before I ever found out about Construct 2) and that I could simply make my games like a real developer without getting my hands stuck in the Matrix that is code.
And when my game was done I could simply click export like in Photoshop or Premiere Pro or After Effects and it would ask me which platform to export to and some other stuff and I could get my PC game.

The closest I got to that was Construct 2, but it's in HTML5 which is reliant on browsers so I can't just poop out a .exe out of the engine without worrying if Node-Webkit or something else was buggily designed. I meant what if development for Node-Webkit stopped all of a sudden. We'd be struck with a wall all of a sudden.

I read something in a manga called "Tower of God", a character in it says something about people that I think applies a lot to game engines, not just Construct 2.

God is quite cruel
When he first shows you this world
It makes us feel that we could do anything in this vast world...
However, with a sudden appearance - He tells you, 'Thats your limit'.
Even though there are so many things that we want still unfulfilled.


I really think that extends to game engines, when I first got Construct 2 I was literally exploding with development, I was making features left and right, then I hit a little fence and stopped for a couple months, then I kept making features like before, then another bug but this time it was only one month, now I'm here after fixing it and doing more in-depth research into the features that my game will require.

When we first get a new game engine, or just start for the first time developing a game. We're filled with all these exciting emotions that we're finally going to make our own game! We're no longer going to be just gamers, we're going to be game-makers as well!!
Just soon after, or often immediately, much like game characters themselves, we get smacked in the face by an invisible wall.
We do not see how to bypass this wall as it's invisible. That wall is very much game engines, when we use an engine that relies on other companies to make features or exports, we become that helpless little game character that is stuck waiting until the invisible wall either gets remove or we give up and walk away. There's always the option of hacking the game and making mods, but who has time or knowledge to create engine extensions and exporters? Not everybody is a knowledgeable coder and programmer.
Most of if not all of the people using Construct 2 came here because they didn't have use code to create games, but like everything there are limits, some have more than others.

I understand and know that HTML5 is great, I have no problem with it or it being the language which Construct 2 uses to code games, I just solely wish we had the ability to create native desktop apps. I played a Construct Classic game, Minitroid and it plays a lot better than Node-Webkit. There's no micro-stuttering or anything else (even now, with Node-Webkit updated to newest release, when my character jumps he kind of sways left to right by around 1-2 pixels).

@newt said
Think more new editor, less new engine.

If Construct 3 is just going to be a really big major update of Construct 2, I'd rather it be released as "Rxxx" rather than Construct 3.
I'm probably sounding super naive in saying this, but I had dreams that Construct 3 would be a lot different than Construct 2 the same way Construct 2 is a lot different to Construct Classic. The programming language changed from DirectX to HTML5, the UI is a lot better and looks a lot smoother.

The least I'd personally expect from Construct 3 is at least a programming language change, I know that HTML5 is great and all but if there's going to be two Construct engines that use HTML5, with the newer version just being a big update a revamp of the same engine of the current then I don't personally see any point in making it Construct 3. I'd rather it be Construct 2 RXXX or at least Construct 2.5.
Especially if you're still going to continue developing builds for Construct 2.

I purchased Construct 2 less than a year ago and already it's going to be kind of (if not mostly) obsolete when Construct 3 comes out, which is turning out to be Construct 2+. It gives me the feel of Construct = iPhone (in the sense that there are newer versions made regularly with small differences), but I know that is not the case and not even close.

Basically, Construct 2 and 3 is going to be kind of like those smartphones that are totally the same, but have slightly different hardware specs, e.g. 4/8 cores and 8/16GB.

But that's just me and my delusional expectations. Take from it what you guys will, that's my two cents.

tl;dr

Before I first got C2, I imaged finding an event-based engine that was basically Construct 2 expect it used C# or C++.
Then I got C2 which is needy and wants browsers to run so we always have to worry about NWK, which other engines don't, so if someone stopped developing NWK we'd be stuck with old versions.
*Read Quote*
When I first got C2, I had child's delight and was developing my game really fast, then rage quit for 2-3 months due to a bug, then fixed it and rage quit for another month because of another bug which I now fixed and here I am now.
When we first get into game development we got "Omfg yuss!" and then get smacked in the face with reality.
Personally, CC's .exe >>>> C2's NWK in terms of performance, I played Minitroid which was made with CC.
*Read Qoute*
I find it kind of bs that C3 is going to be C2 v2.0 instead of a real C3, since C2 was a major game changer (literally!) from CC, with a different programming language and entirely new and better UI. From C3 I'd expect it to do to C2 what C2 did to CC.
Currently we'd get C3 from Ashley while he also develops builds for C2, so development would slow on both.
Right now I feel like Scirra is pulling an Apple by making Construct 3/IphoneX+1 when it's really kind of an firmware update instead of a whole phone. Even though we know that Scirra is a lot better than Apple and doesn't do that.

But that's just me.
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:11 am

in HTML5 which is reliant on browsers so I can't just poop out a .exe out of the engine without worrying if Node-Webkit or something else was buggily designed. I meant what if development for Node-Webkit stopped all of a sudden. We'd be struck with a wall all of a sudden.


You can do exactly that, yes NW and C2 have bugs/issues every now and then, but software always does and "native exporters" aren't immune to bugs either.
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:19 am

alspal wrote:You can do exactly that, yes NW and C2 have bugs/issues every now and then, but software always does and "native exporters" aren't immune to bugs either.


The difference is that if Scirra makes a native exporter, they can fix the bugs instead of a third party making an unexpected change and having to wait for that to be fixed. NW breaks all the time between C2 and NW updates and it's just because they are separate and still being updated/changed. Heck, even Chrome has made a few breaking changes in C2's lifetime.
Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:27 am

Yeah, have to agree with @PixelRebirth and @Nesteris, personally I'd like to see C3 be a new tool, not an upgrade to C2.

C2 has given HTML5 a good run, but let's face it, reliance on third parties is never a good move. Web browsers have, and always will be at odds with each other. You can't rely on google to fix the bugs they introduce, but you can rely on them creating bugs that break your games. The jank bug (although almost fixed now) completely broke games, and took months to fix! NW relies on chrome so that is flawed as a result.

So why not just service C2 when required and make C3 complete new tool. Get away from HTML5, and make anew tool that combines the best of CC and C2.

For me:
Don't care about backwards compatibility - doing that always equals work arounds and hacks to make old stuff work in new tool.

Don't care about mobile - mobile just equals dumbed down games because all you have is touch control.

Doesn't matter how long it takes, but do everything in-house, that way if it is broken YOU can fix it. Crowdfund it I'm in already - what are the pledge options?
Last edited by michael on Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
If it can be done, someone on the web will show you how to do it!

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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:36 am

PixelRebirth wrote:Not the worst idea I ever heard. But how can you bully talented coders into creating this kickstarter project? :twisted:


Well, you get in touch with some candidates, find out what the projected costs might be and do it yourself I guess. So crazy it might just work.
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:18 am

C2 has given HTML5 a good run, but let's face it, reliance on third parties is never a good move. Web browsers have, and always will be at odds with each other. You can't rely on google to fix the bugs they introduce, but you can rely on them creating bugs that break your games. The jank bug (although almost fixed now) completely broke games, and took months to fix! NW relies on chrome so that is flawed as a result.


Dunno if you read my post, but I basically said the same thing. You have better phrasing though. I'm probably just annoying people...
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:13 am

I'd rather to have Export SDK. This way it becomes possible to make own exporter to any custom backends.
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Post » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:21 am

Nesteris wrote:Dunno if you read my post, but I basically said the same thing. You have better phrasing though. I'm probably just annoying people...


@Nesteris, Yeah meant to include you in my previous (now updated) post.....
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