Native Desktop Exporter for Construct 3

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:41 am

Nesteris wrote:What happens to Construct 2 and 3 when HTML6 comes out?

The thing with HTML is that it's really very very likely that it's going to be fully backwards compatible with just forwards compatibility being a question - which can then quite likely be solved with plugins.
B
19
S
6
G
7
Posts: 1,101
Reputation: 6,146

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:58 am

@Jayjay
@Nesteris
@Jayderyu
@Juryiel

summing up "make advanced games", "true multiplatform support", "reliable":

2011: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issu ... ?id=108284
2014: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issu ... ?id=422000

it seems that time passed,
JavaScript got better (and CPUs got stronger),
but we are still in the same place: begging 3rd party companies for fixing their bugs,

and it will be even more fun with auto-updating WebView on Android 5.0+ devices.

And if Google cares so much about HTML5 and HTML5 games, then why there is no someone from Chromium team on Scirra forum? It's the most popular HTML5 game creator as far as I know...
B
18
S
7
G
1
Posts: 783
Reputation: 4,247

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:19 am

we are still in the same place: begging 3rd party companies for fixing their bugs


This is also true for drivers, operating systems, etc. and these affect all the tools/engines on all the platforms. Not using this as an excuse, but that's the current state of things : it is very common for developers to use workarounds, undocumented features, and black voodoo magic fixes, to circumvent all kinds of issues (hardware issues, driver issues, OS issues, etc.) on many very popular platforms.

I understand this is far from ideal, but in reality things are never as smooth as we'd like ; in my opinion it's just something to accept and compose with, as we'll never have a perfectly stable deployment environment.
Image
Game Producer & Independent Developer - http://raphaelgervaise.com
B
24
S
9
Posts: 237
Reputation: 2,232

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:13 pm

@Jayjay: You can complain, but complain about the right things! C2 is a mature and professional product for an html5 engine! And you can make advanced games with it. Scrirra did not lie about this. But what you must get in your head is that you can not compare this engine with for example a C++/OpenGl Engine. The problem is the wrong expectation of people, not the engine itself.
B
11
S
2
Posts: 213
Reputation: 1,266

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:04 pm

Waiting for a bug fix is more sensible than starting a huge software engineering project to work around it. Google do respond to bugs - sometimes it takes a while - but they are far more communicative than driver vendors, and then even if they fix it, the update may only be distributed to a fraction users worldwide, due to their policy of dropping support for driver updates for old hardware after a few years.

I do understand it is hard to hear as a customer, but waiting for improvements does work. Around 2011 when everyone was exasperatedly telling us what were we thinking, we should make a Flash exporter, and I still argued then that the direction things are going in is more important than the specifics of the situation right now. Where are those "you must make a Flash exporter" people now?

I guess if you absolutely insist on the necessity of a native exporter, then maybe there are other tools out there which can provide that for you. But I do think that would be somewhat premature at this stage if your main concern is the status of v-sync quality in Chrome - it's probably not going to stay the same forever.
Scirra Founder
B
398
S
236
G
88
Posts: 24,433
Reputation: 194,635

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:30 pm

@Ashley

This is off completely off topic, but I'd probably get a response from you faster here.

Is there any reason that the "Wait" and "Flash" actions would not work because of each other in an event?

I made a post about it here.

Back to topic,

I heard someone that Construct 2 exports your events in Javascript when you export to HTML5. Is this true? If so, would it be possible to make an .exe exporter for the JavaScript?
The moderators are corrupt and ban for no reason, especially that condescending neckbeard asshole Kyatric. The forums are filled with fanboys.
Banned User
B
22
S
7
G
1
Posts: 558
Reputation: 2,925

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:22 pm

JavaScript is a part of the HTML5 technologie, so internally C2 works with JavaScript. But it is not enough just to translate JavaScript to another language, like C++ or C#. You must bind in graphic, sound and other libraries too, for example DirectX or OpenGl. In the end you have a complete new Game Engine.

What would be thinkable is make an Editor like C2 for Haxe and OpenFL, but also this Ashley had to code from the ground up new.
B
11
S
2
Posts: 213
Reputation: 1,266

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:45 pm

Nesteris wrote:I heard someone that Construct 2 exports your events in Javascript when you export to HTML5


As far as I know it does. A JavaScript code is viewable from the webpage source code, that's why C2 uses the "Minify script" option (if you check it). If I'm right, the code is in the c2runtime.js file.
B
135
S
33
G
17
Posts: 1,557
Reputation: 20,717

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:21 pm

Ashley wrote:Waiting for a bug fix is more sensible than starting a huge software engineering project to work around it. Google do respond to bugs - sometimes it takes a while - but they are far more communicative than driver vendors, and then even if they fix it, the update may only be distributed to a fraction users worldwide, due to their policy of dropping support for driver updates for old hardware after a few years.

I do understand it is hard to hear as a customer, but waiting for improvements does work. Around 2011 when everyone was exasperatedly telling us what were we thinking, we should make a Flash exporter, and I still argued then that the direction things are going in is more important than the specifics of the situation right now. Where are those "you must make a Flash exporter" people now?

I guess if you absolutely insist on the necessity of a native exporter, then maybe there are other tools out there which can provide that for you. But I do think that would be somewhat premature at this stage if your main concern is the status of v-sync quality in Chrome - it's probably not going to stay the same forever.


I mean, for me, and I would imagine others, the dependence on dev teams that have C2 as an afterthought has failed. Of course the same arguments always come up, "What about driver bugs?", "This is only one bug!", etc etc. These are all academic, in reality, when you design a game with features listed in C2 that then don't actually work, and stay that way for literally years, that leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Especially so when when gaming related issues are often put behind stuff like browser security or whatever is of most importance in browser vendors. Just as an example, Number of times I've had to wait for over a year for some bug affecting my unity projects to be addressed = 0. Number of times in C2 is like 5 (though, yay, I think I'm on the last one now!). And the complexity of the unity projects is vastly greater than my C2 projects. Maybe driver vendors are unresponsive, but their code appears to be far more mature than chrome's implementation of HTML5 and their priorities are more aligned with game devs. Also typically driver bugs don't affect your entire customer base, etc etc. I'm just speculating here, I don't actually know why, but of many, many tools I've used, C2 is the only one where I can't actually publish my projects years after they've been completed, and the ONLY product where devs outright just point you to Google or some third party (in other products usually they may implement some work-around for some bug out of their control, etc). I'll leave it to you to figure out why C2 has that problem rather than debate with you with academic arguments.

I'm not saying that a native exporter is what you need, but your product needs to depend on technologies that are more mature, that you have more control over, and whose development teams closely share priorities with you. None of these things were the case for C2. Because of the technologies C2 depended on it was essentially an Alpha or Beta stage product throughout its entire lifetime, with Scirra being essentially helpless in pushing it out of Beta until chrome devs or Intel, or whoever got around to it. This just makes it impossible to plan stuff. YOu never know if a bug will be fixed or with what timeline (whereas with all other tools I've used, you do), so should you re-design your game? Wait until the bug is fixed? Who knows? Certainly not Scirra. You can't plan anything.

Anyway the bottom line is, customers shouldn't really prescribe the specific solution. At the same time you should appreciate that they are unhappy and that unhappiness is for a reason. So as a professional company, maybe you should figure out the solution as to how to put yourselves in a position where you can address bugs with something more meaningful than "oh.. but... GOOGLE!", whether that's with a native exporter, Scirra's own wrapper, or whatever. Just know that right now you are not succeeding on being able to provide support for your product, and no professional in their right mind would depend on such a product.
B
11
S
2
G
3
Posts: 283
Reputation: 1,968

Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:10 pm

What you don't understand is, that this are issues of html5 and not C2. If you want make a game like the new Diablo (example) and publish on steam, C2 is probably not the right tool for you. But anyway, there are thousands of active html5 developers who publish succesfull there games and projects. I also use C2 for my client work and always everything worked out fine. C2 has it's market and it's very good on this. So stop whining and chose the correct tools for your projects.
There is never a all-in-one solution. C2 is mainly for small to medium web-/mobile games or interactive advertisment on the web.
B
11
S
2
Posts: 213
Reputation: 1,266

PreviousNext

Return to Construct 2 General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests