nw.dll weighs ~90mb of my 130 mb game, what is it?

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:27 am

On the front page:

"Export your game to desktop PC, Mac and Linux apps by using the Node-Webkit wrapper.

You can also reach the popular iOS and Android app stores using wrappers with built-in support."

The mention of wrappers should already inform potential game-devs of the situation. Unless people don't understand what wrappers are...
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:33 am

I can really understand your frustration, it's hard to get a point across when you are standing on your own, as nobody else really cares about filesize on NW.JS. It sort of seems as though you may need to give a reason why you think that information should be provided, I mean I'm sure there's certain cases, maybe someone might want to distribute to an area where they have extremely limited bandwidth or something extreme and specific. Although it might be a bad idea to explain your own personal reason because it might become a backwards and forwards conversation with people that go "Well why not do this instead?" "No I can't do that" "Well what about this?", even if you know 100% that filesize matters in your situation. Maybe it's a tricky thing for Scirra to decide what information to put out because they will always miss something, maybe in the future a similar situation is going to occur where someone buys the software and realises something specific about one of the full versions features (can't think of a random example but I hope I make sense).

Although one things for sure, it'd help a lot to have the free version give a limited export option. At least you can then retrieve all the information you want, knowing that when you buy the full version, the watermark goes and time limits go and everything is exactly as you'd expect.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:38 am

I'm C2 user/customer, working on game right now. I do have my thoughts about making the game as light as possible size wise, but of course without sacrificing performance or function, just like Eisenhans said. And besides nowadays most devices have a huge amount of memory installed + memory card slots, PCs even with Terabytes.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:50 am

@Silverforce - no, the mention of wrappers is too little to let people know about the additional filesize.
I can bet you had no idea untill you did some research afterwards, and not before purchasing. Either that or you had been a dev earlier and already had some info regarding game dev.
As an example you would think that people would know that the chemicals in processed foods are bad for them and they would know what each ingredient on the box where the product ingredients are specified is (the coded numbers). Especially since this is going into your body which should be more important than anything right? Wrong.
Have you been a market customer longer or a game dev longer? Do you know what are the chemicals in your veggies/fruits/processed foods/breads etc. etc. ? Did you know that the meat you buy in supermarkets is about 60% meat and about 40% water, antibiotics, vitamins and other crapola that increases the weight fo the meat so the price is more expensive? How long have you been a meat eater?
This is simillar, how should I know where to search to find how much mb extra would my game have?

Where do you suggest I had looked for to know that my file will be 60mb bigger?

Lets get one thing straight - visual programming mostly focuses on the newbie market. Do you expect newbies to know such information?
You have written: "potential game-devs" - Construct 2 as you know gets you results instantly, thus newbie can export straight away and become a dev. And whats the fastest way? Nw.js! But without surprises please..
Please dont make me repeat myself that I have researched all the info I could forums+main scirra page+(!)free construct 2(!)


@Jase00
Yes you are right, especially since 99% of folks here are for mobile/html5 dev.
I just did give a reason in my previous post. The idea to create a game strictly for floppy and distribute it in limited amounts in limited situations for limited public spaces. Is that not a good reason? How can one achieve that having an +60mb increase in volume?
Another reason?
Making a game for charity for 3rd world countries where they dont have gazillion/s speed fibre wire internet. Seems legit?

You have my respect for looking at this objectivly in regards to the NW.js export. At least someone else is not afraid to speak their mind on this forum.
Even if all that has been said by me in this theard was wrong and utter bull, at least the part of having limited NW.js export would solve all my questions (and the questions of others aswell).


Lets face it, the bottom line is that now everyone interested will know about the +60mb for win32 and +90mb for win64 to your exported NW.js filesize, by finding this thread. In a way I have accomplished what I have preached.
This thread was missing once I was about to purchase Construct 2 strictly for NW.js export.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:34 am

You're determined to rhetorically divide the size of your final game into the regular content and the "additional" content from nw.js - in fact you keep using that word "additional" over and over again. But that breakdown seems arbitrary to me. All game builds will end up using some space for assets and other space for engine and engine libraries. Both are part of the game, neither is an extraneous addition. Scirra shouldn't really have to specifically point out that the engine will take up space any more than they should have to tell you the other assets (graphics, music, etc.) will.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:35 am

Quicksand wrote:You're determined to rhetorically divide the size of your final game into the regular content and the "additional" content from nw.js - in fact you keep using that word "additional" over and over again. But that breakdown seems arbitrary to me.
All game builds will end up using some space for assets and other space for engine and engine libraries. Both are part of the game, neither is an extraneous addition. Scirra shouldn't really have to specifically point out that the engine will take up space any more than they should have to tell you the other assets (graphics, music, etc.) will.


Once again I am forced to repeat what I have written previously.
Scirra should provide me with enough information so that I am sure what I am buying without any surprises to an extent. Once again I will repeat myself:
No ability to export NW.js in free version, no information anywhere about size after export. This could have been easily handled in a good manner. Is this really asking for too much?

You are saying that engines have their space ("use some space") for use of their system files/engine files whatever you want to call them. Fine.
BUT creating a 5mb game (and I am constantly giving this example because this was something I had planned) and adding 60mb worth of engine files to it and calling that combination one game is just ridiculous to me. That is a 1200% increase. Now is that some space?
If you ask someone for some bread do you expect 1200 loaves of bread in return? How would you put "some" in proportion to ones game content? Because that sure isnt how I would put "some" in proportion.

Do you still think that this drastic increase should not be specified in this situation? Did you read my previous examples of probable freelance work? Do you not understand what impact this might have yet this cannot be tested anywhere?
Well if you dont, it is because this did not and does not concern you directly, and as I am person that is totally unknown to you - my problems are not your problems - which is only natural.

Now as I said before I do not wish to discuss other engines here (and the sizes of their run-files if there are others that need to add so much additional balast and weight, and if there are if they mention this) as my intention is not to drive people off to competition. That is strictly the reason.


I think this topic has reached its peak point. There is no need for me to keep repeating what I am saying. I do not need to rub this in any more.
If people are having a hard time understanding this, well so be it. Everyone has their own brain so let everyone decide for themselves how they feel about this, even if it does not affect them directly. I am speaking for myself in this thread as I can only speak for myself.

If this does not convince owners of Scirra to add a notation or add a very strict and limited NW.js export to the free version (while a notation is totally fine - and so little work to add that somewhere in small font and an asterix), then nothing will.
What is important that this thread is here, and in the future if someone comes by and looks for answers in this matter, they will find them here and then they will make up their mind without surprises. If I only knew this one bit of information, that would mean a lot for me.

I still do think that Construct 2 is great to work with, this is the only issue I have found so far, but unfortunately for me it was quite important at the time.
I only wish this was either mentioned somewhere or handled differently as a source for me to see.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:01 am

Actually you're making me have to repeat myself. Again, you haven't created a 5mb game and then added a 60mb addition to it. The game is not 5mb at all, its 65mb. The dll file in question is just as much part of the game as any other included files.

I suppose the documentation could be amended to say something like "games exported with NW.js will be at least X mb", but there's always a trade-off when choosing what information to include or highlight.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:05 am

@Quicksand
If you want to conversate further you are going to have to relate to what I have asked you in the post above.
But I have nothing more to add. My case is there with all my arguments.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:54 am

Asked, and answered it is then.
It's no one's responsibility to foresee every scenario in your adventures into game dev, but your own.
They have provided information as to what it can do, as well as a forum to learn everything, for free.
No company, is going to make a selling point of what a product isn't designed for.
If this was the only issue you ever ran into making games, then you would be the luckiest person alive.
You're not, there will be true horror stories, and given this attitude you are likely to burn out way before the starting credits even roll.
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Post » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:22 pm

@newt

It's no one's responsibility to foresee every scenario in your adventures into game dev, but your own.


Its my responsibility to forsee something that has not been mentioned anywhere? Are you reading what you are writing?
I did forsee what I planed on doing to the extent I could.

No company, is going to make a selling point of what a product isn't designed for.


You have got to be joking. The product is not designed to produce games for PC standalone, with smaller runtime sizes? Where is that to learn?
Show me. Free version? Main page with features? Information is shown where?

They have provided information as to what it can do, as well as a forum to learn everything, for free.


Point me to the information they provided regarding this information. Please do so. Prove it, go on as you as so sure of this. Point me where was this to be found. Go on. Show me how a starting out programmer can find this since it is not mentioned on the main page where the program that this concerns is sold.

If this was the only issue you ever ran into making games, then you would be the luckiest person alive.


What is this statement? How is this an argument? What do I care? I have had a business contract sealed with a money transaction and it has not been totally transparent from my perspective for what I was to do and for what it was to do for me at that very moment in time. Other areas of C2? Fine but I am talking about my situation as it is my situation.

You're not, there will be true horror stories, and given this attitude you are likely to burn out way before the starting credits even roll.


How is this an argument? How is this your business? This is your personal trip to me, as you dont have any arguments.
Why are you turning this personal? Do you want me to turn this personal? Do you want me to start inquiring into your personal business regarding game dev? Should I start to speculate and make my opinions based on thin air about your career?
Do you want me to start asking you to show what you have been doing from the time that you have started gam dev since it seems to be quite long as you have a 1st badge from C2, so I can asses if it is of any value/quality (from a playability level and especially from a visually aesthetic level since that is my expertise)? Would that be my business? Would that be professional? Of course not.
How is this adding anyhting but fire to this thread?
Did I attack you anywhere on a personal level? Do you not know how to hold up conversations and exchange arguments without personal trips?

If you would know anything, you would know one thing. A person that is meticulous in one area is meticulous in many areas. That is not a vice but a virtue. The difference between good content (not only games) and great content roams in the polishing phase, for which a person must be meticulous - as its the last most important 10 percent. Dont agree? I dont care. This thread is not about that, do not derail it.
I have plenty to show for in my career (character animation/graphic design/illustration) but that is none of your business, as this thread is not about that.

How is this comming from a long time registered user? I understand that you might be financially dependant on Construct 2 and thus you are prepared to defend it. This is not about defending C2.

Why are you still continuing this thread by not adding anything of value to it? Are you just posting just to quarrel?
I am only waiting for Ashley to *hopefuly* post one final post to adress my latest post to him.

You have had many chances to post, yet you post just after I have posted that there is no point in continuting this thread as all has been
already said, and you do so in that style - starting to make it personal? Is this normal forum behaviour?

Ps. Edits are mainly for typos as I have the dictionary turned off.
Last edited by Solomon on Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:29 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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