Piracy

Chat about anything not covered in these forums, but keep it civil!

Post » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:22 am

I will be not kind, and I am sorry for it:

piracy is not good nor bad per say, like some Saïd, sometimes it helps people getting their products known (or show how stupid your government can be, or give people excuses to add a while ton of undesured thing to their products)

but being potentially a neutral or even à positive thing does not mean it should exist! If your game is known because if piracy, it is more a "Lucky strike" rather than a thing you should claim, piracy did not make the game being known, the fact people loved it or hated it did!

piracy seems so "normal" sometimes it is crazy, I do not think this is stealing, but whatever this may be, we could do without, there are always thé same excuses:

"cultural things should be accesible for everyone"
-... applicable to some cases, but also used in other stupid cases really, and there is still the fact that thé creator wanted that to be paid, if you do not agree, Nothing forces you to download it

"it is not because I do it than it will harm"
I being "a whole ton of us" easily

"It is not worth the price"
so find a worthwhile product

"but I want to test before buying, and everyone can make a good looking demo"
hard to find an argument against other than if it do not please you, you used it freely

"what will they do against me?"
if you only think about punishment, you will not get my post anyway I would think

spécial case
"I will make money with it, then buy the software"
or you will fail miserably, or take too much time and so hurt the company partially

non exhausive list

tl;dr Piracy is something we cannot stop, does not mean it is good nor it should exists
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:41 pm

I do not care. I will make a game like "The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt" without protection against the Buccaneers.
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Post » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:55 pm

Piracy is such a touchy subject, I think perhaps most of all because all statistics related to it are subjective. There is no absolute that person A would have bought product X were product X not available to be pirated.

Big business would lead you to believe this, but it isn't true.

There is also no absolute that if, say, person A let friend B know about product X, that friend B will buy or pirate X. However, both outcomes are possible and happen regularly.

@Colludium you said "imagine that someone copies and plays your pay-to-own game, but they got it from a torrent site. Imagine that person tells you that they weren't stealing your work" I would not tell them that they were stealing anything. However, I would ask that if they had money that they buy my game or at least let their friends know about it.

I'm not gonna lie, I have pirated content before. One of the primary examples being anime. I would not be purchasing anime or anime-related products if I never pirated that content. Or at least significantly less. It is as simple as that. In my case, that industry has profited directly off of my pirating.

Say what you will, though. There are definite positives and drawbacks to the pirate side of the media industry.
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Post » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:04 pm

@DatapawWolf this case actually lead me to think that either the company did a really bad job advertising his product, or the pirates were not the targetted audience, both cases are just a lucky shot for the company, but I would not say it is a positive thing, the first case would reveal a weakness that they will not see in their marketing model.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:02 pm

Aphrodite wrote:@DatapawWolf this case actually lead me to think that either the company did a really bad job advertising his product, or the pirates were not the targetted audience, both cases are just a lucky shot for the company, but I would not say it is a positive thing, the first case would reveal a weakness that they will not see in their marketing model.
@Aphrodite I *don't care about marketing, I care about what the product actually is. That and combined with the fact that most anime doesn't reach American audiences, I often have to rely on pirated content. It's a straight up fact. Nothing their marketing department can fix.

This has little more to do with luck than just circumstance, of which marketing is all about --> getting the right words to the right people at the right time.

In the case of the content that I have pirated, one could consider the people who provide said pirated content to actually be marketing the product for said company.

Overall, I would argue that pirating is neither good nor bad, and the concept of downloading bits and bytes that one has limited access to to be stealing depending solely on who asks the question and who answers.
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Post » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:19 am

It's interesting to read all the opinions. I don't know how old you, how wrote here, are. I assume pretty young. But reading @DatapawWolf 's "confession" reminded me of something.

I'm 47 years old. I grew up in a world without computers or cell phones, internet or even video cameras. At the age of 11 I heard of something mysterious called "Pong". I was hooked.

But since the very first "home computers", in contrast to consoles, there also was piracy. I remember my very first C64. A few days after I got that one ("Just to have an advantage in school, Dad. See, I can easily plot graphs of functions with it and calculate so much more complex than any pocket calculator could ever do!"), a datasette full of games fell miraculously into my hands. None of them were bought. And guess, what? We argued pretty much the same than you today, 30 years later. The excuses are so old as the pirated industry. And anyone bringing in almost philosophical aspects is just doing balony. It's a try to distract from the fact that one uses for free what he needs to pay for! It's morally unrighteous. At least back then I didn't pretend to be on some holy mission. Instead I was very aware that I was doing wrong. But it felt so good.

And that's the point. It feels so good. All the freedom of getting anything you want, when you want it, where you want it, without paying respect of another one's good. By pretending there is no "another one's good", but "everyone's good". Yeah, right. Like you always shared your Halloween candy with your family.

Sister: "Oh that's nice. I like it. Give it to me."
Brother: "No, you can't have it. It's mine."

Be honest and smile while remembering the scene. No, you just want other's goods to be shared. And the feeling of getting anything is nothing new. It's what people made to believe in higher entities. No matter the religion (yes, even buddhism), there always is some kind of overly rewarding situation or place. Christians know it as Garden Eden, ancient Vikings as Valhalla, ancient Egypts as the afterlife, the Koran tells of "Jannah", etc. All share the same concept. A place or feeling of everything positive in abundance.

Piracy is just a try to shortcut to Garden Eden.

Back in the stone-age. Gro has a flintstone axe. What a wonderful axe. Sharp and strong. Cuts through meat, can kill animals. A must-have for the up-to-date stone-ager! Sesh is an untalented follower of his tribe. Never had much luck in axe building. But he wants one!
Sesh: Tonight I will use your axe, Gru. You won't miss it while you're sleeping anyway!
Gru: No, you can't have it. I worked a week on it and is very valuable to me.
Sesh: I don't care. I'll take it when you are asleep. You won't even notice it.
Gru: I don't permit it! But you can have your own axe. For all the meat of a mammoth I will craft an axe for you.
Sesh: Mammoth? I don't have that much meat. That's not fair.
Gru: Then keep hunting until you get it. The axe is worth it.
Sesh: That takes way too long! I want it now!
Gru: Well, then you're out of luck.

That night, Sesh waits for Gru to fall asleep, then takes his axe and plays around with it. He throws it as hard as he can. But unfortunately the axe misses the stone Sesh was aiming at, and instead hits Gru's sister, who was sleeping just behind that stone. She dies. Sesh takes the axe, cleans it and puts it back in its place near Gru, who was sad the whole rest of his life, without ever knowing who had killed his sister.

Now tell me, and be honest: Who's right here, and who's wrong?

Oh, and back to the C64 datasette with lots of pirated games. I got it from a close friend at that time. And it had a great influence on both of us. My friend later published a german magazine all about Apple Macintosh, called "MAClife", soon followed by a lot of other magazines and businesses. He became a serious and cunning businessman, making sure to get all the money he could get.
And me? I never forgot how satisfying it was to get something without having to pay for it. It is so deep in my veins, that I since then always published for free whatever I created.
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Post » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:08 am

This reminds me of a funny blogpost from greenheartgames game dev tycoon about piracy of there game and how they fooled the pirates :) i actually find out and bought the game because of it, but its an edge case i think, http://bit.ly/134KuBk
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Post » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:04 pm

DatapawWolf wrote:
Aphrodite wrote:@DatapawWolf this case actually lead me to think that either the company did a really bad job advertising his product, or the pirates were not the targetted audience, both cases are just a lucky shot for the company, but I would not say it is a positive thing, the first case would reveal a weakness that they will not see in their marketing model.
@Aphrodite I *don't care about marketing, I care about what the product actually is. That and combined with the fact that most anime doesn't reach American audiences, I often have to rely on pirated content. It's a straight up fact. Nothing their marketing department can fix.

This has little more to do with luck than just circumstance, of which marketing is all about --> getting the right words to the right people at the right time.

In the case of the content that I have pirated, one could consider the people who provide said pirated content to actually be marketing the product for said company.

Overall, I would argue that pirating is neither good nor bad, and the concept of downloading bits and bytes that one has limited access to to be stealing depending solely on who asks the question and who answers.


Yes, the problem being when the middleware makes money from it, it has no authorisation to do so, when he does not make any money, since you were not the initial target, I would say "who actually cares" (my comment about marketing was for the intended target), I will never actually say to someone "you should not have downloaded it, you are a really really naughty boy, and I will whip you", I think the best would be that everyone could see any link possible of the internet with no issues at all legally wise or anything like that, but maybe I am being too utopist.

@tulamide some people actually wants to share their goods and not have a reward for it, I am kind of ashamed to think I will be paid when I will work at a full time job, just for my knowledge and time. And I have kind of a bad feeling when I think about not paying a content that I could pay for, and I do not think I am kind of an unique holy representant of honor, like I am the only one thinking like that, pretty sure others also think like that, and I do not believe in life after death so I do not have this kind of motivation either, so this "wanting it freely" is not an as accurate description as it may sounds at first (but again, some people are like that)

Also why nobody mentionned the fact some people have to download a pirate copy to make it work sometimes? (Drm not working correctly makes us sad).
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:35 pm

Well, there's the argument that pirates who steal your game from torrents or wherever are NOT going to be buying it regardless so they did not cause any monetary loss. There may even be a positive as it spreads and some of them end up buying it either due to being alerted by their friends (hey, check out this awesome game!) or guilt/appreciation. :)

But on mobiles where your app position and visibility is highly dependent on number of downloads, reviews, ratings & +1, its detrimental for your game to be pirated from torrents. It's best therefore, to make your game free (!) so they have no need or desire to pirate it from other sites, but directly download from Google Play. Maybe they even leave you a review or rating or even +1! These "pirates" have actually contributed!

So there's definitely pros & cons, but on mobiles, it's nearly always bad to have your game pirated.
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Post » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:55 pm

newt wrote:Then again you can't pirate something thats free


I dissagree... Even free games have some legal resources that can be pirated.

For example, lets take a shitty MMO called metin2. It's free to play, but pay to win. See how many private servers
are running, however in this case, priv servers are much better than official, but still, priv server is piracy and stealing, even the source code has leaked from owner to internet
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